Now I understand: it's the LEASH!! (counselors, elementary school, pay, master)
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To the OP:
I agree, it is a cultural issue, or rather one with many facets, all stemming from society and cultural movements and trends. However, I think it is simplistic to narrow it down to only discipline. The whole system is broken, from parenting, to a sue-happy society, a hyper focus on children's self-esteem taking priority over all other factors including behavior and manners, and a failure to modernize teaching methods to keep up with how our kids brains develop amidst new technology.
Certainly, a well controlled classroom in which the kids respect the teacher will yield better results. I guess we need a cultural revolution.
Most of those boil down to discipline - save the latter.
As for the latter, kids brains are messed up by information overload. Their attention spans are also reduced by poppy, colorful and computerized teaching methods.
Look you reap what you sow, if you constanly present school as a carnival, don't wonder why the kids act like it.
But see...it's a vicious cycle. Not sure who came first, the chicken or the egg? The undisciplined child begot the carnival teaching method (to keep the child's interest alive) or the carnival teaching methods created the undisciplined children?
I am inclined to go with the former.
Otherwise your posts reflects exactly what I see out there; so it can't be just my ill-willed mind as some like to suggest.
They start that way in pre-school and kindergarten. They literally go from one activity to another. They are never expected to clean up their supplies, put stuff away, get stuff out, etc. Instead, while they are engaged in one activity, teacher aides are busy setting up the next activity, so all they have to do is stand up, turn around, and dive right into the next activity. They are never expected to take any responsibility to put things away, assemble materials, within their capabilities. Instead, they are taught someone else will do all the grunt work and they just do the "fun stuff". By the time they get to grade school, they are trained to expect someone to literally wait on them hand and foot while they engage in one fun-fun activity after another. its all validated by saying kids learn by doing. Right---they could learn to be responsible for their own supplies, learn to think ahead a little to plan their activities, etc. Instead, all they learn is how to cut up paper, color, make posters, go on field trips, go to assemblies, etc, etc.
Great skills to learn!
Shower of reps.
I once asked why schools don't use textbooks and notebooks that kids would carry back and forth to and fro school. I ended up feeling like I was asking the type of questions a mentally deranged person would. I was told I am crazy to think kids would not forget their stuff all over the place every day. I couldn't understand how my generation (in my country) and older generations (in this country) were somehow able to NOT forget.
The OP described inner city Austin schools to a "T".
You have been lucky to have never witnessed it.
I have also witnessed it in rural schools but not to the same degree as urban schools. In rural schools you have 2 maybe 3 that act up while in inner city you have 7-10 acting up. (I speak from middle school experience).
The kids I saw were not doing anything outrageous. They were simply un-attentive, disruptive, unfocused, talking out loud, etc DESPITE the fact that we were playing a game. This is a VERY good school in a VERY nice area (largely upper-middle class).
The reality is that many aspects of learning cannot be turned into exhilarating entertainment so that children will really LOVE IT and be IN IT 100%.
Learning letter sounds can only be SO MUCH fun; and yet again, the children must learn the darn sounds. And they don't have to like it.
Agree.
Coming from a different country, I started out feeling offended at the very idea that schools would expect parents to drop other problems they have including work and household-related chores etc. and just come to do unpaid work at school; but when I understood the process and the cultural background better, I realized I want to do it. It is HARD for the teachers and after all, it would help my kid too under the circumstances.
However I do not volunteer for basically anything outside of the classroom as I don't believe in the extra, PTA-type frills.
I also think it's a good idea to volunteer in your kids classroom as much as you can so you know what's going on with your kid. You know what sort of math they are doing and how the teacher is teaching it. You know what books are being read in the class. You know what kids are obnoxious and what kids are potential playmates. You get a better feel for how your own child is behaving and doing in school. It can help you have better, more in-depth conversations with your own kid about how school is going for them. There are a lot of benefits from being involved, many more than the few mentioned.
The kids I saw were not doing anything outrageous. They were simply un-attentive, disruptive, unfocused, talking out loud, etc DESPITE the fact that we were playing a game. This is a VERY good school in a VERY nice area (largely upper-middle class).
Same here. We're in supposedly the second highest rated school district in our state, and among the most wealthy. Our schools still have problems keeping the classrooms orderly. Especially as class sizes get larger. It really doesn't matter if it's a rural area, poor area, more affluent area... And it gets a lot worse at the middle school level...
Went to the school today to volunteer. While there, the teacher is in the front of the class trying to give instruction. The kids are talking to their neighbor, walking around, going to the restroom (without asking) getting up to get a drink of water, etc.. She tries to get their attention with clapping, it helps for about 30 seconds. One young man is continually getting up from his desk, talking, going in and out of the classroom. He has behavior issues and the teacher asks me to stand by him and help him get his work done. She admits that she has given up trying to control this boy because she was spending so much of her time dealing with him that the other kids weren't getting the attention they needed.
The poor teacher looked completly worn out and fed up with trying to get these kids to sit and listen.
I offered to come in more often and help, we shall see if she takes me up on that offer.
There were times when our kids' classrooms seemed chaotic but they were scheduled times to do so as well. I don't think kids need to sit like robots in their desks all day. Now, if the teacher was trying to give instruction during that time, say giving a math lesson, this is an issue, but if the kids had "free" time to work on whatever, not a problem.
This was not free time. She was trying to get them all to sit and write the daily information in their agenda. The louder she spoke, trying to get the info out, the louder the kids got.
I do understand it's hard for kids to sit still, but they also need to realize that they can't just get up whenever they feel like it. They need to ask, but this isn't happening.
When I was in school, we sat at our desks, raised our hands to ask a question or to ask to use the restroom. We never talked out of turn because if we did we got into trouble. I am finding that kids these days have no respect for adults.
Went to the school today to volunteer. While there, the teacher is in the front of the class trying to give instruction. The kids are talking to their neighbor, walking around, going to the restroom (without asking) getting up to get a drink of water, etc.. She tries to get their attention with clapping, it helps for about 30 seconds. One young man is continually getting up from his desk, talking, going in and out of the classroom. He has behavior issues and the teacher asks me to stand by him and help him get his work done. She admits that she has given up trying to control this boy because she was spending so much of her time dealing with him that the other kids weren't getting the attention they needed.
The poor teacher looked completly worn out and fed up with trying to get these kids to sit and listen.
I offered to come in more often and help, we shall see if she takes me up on that offer.
Don't wait for her to ask. Just go. I've been there. I was ready to shoot myself after my second year of teaching. I couldn't teach because all I did was deal with disruptions and half the time when you call parents, they blame you for being boring.
Where I am now, my higher level kids aren't too disruptive (I get some talking and texting but not nearly as bad as my old school) because grades matter to them and my lower level kids are actually fun to teach. They're disruptive but not in an ignore me way. They get off on tangents that are semi related to the subject. Usually I can work with that and just go where they lead. This is actually starting to get to be fun now that I have some things I can just pull out of my bag of tricks on a moments notice. And it helps SO much to be at a school with a properly equipped lab and store room. I could have done so much more at my old school...
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