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In most countries only the top 25% of students or less are encouraged (or in some places allowed) to go to college. Therefore comparing those students to the near 70% of US high school students going on to college is disingenuous at best.
That 70% is inflated by all the students at community colleges working on Associates degrees in non-academic disciplines. They aren't educated people being further educated, they are square pegs being rounded to fit grunt jobs, which have been done for centuries by people with no education at all and a bit of apprenticeship.
In most countries only the top 25% of students or less are encouraged (or in some places allowed) to go to college. Therefore comparing those students to the near 70% of US high school students going on to college is disingenuous at best.
Compare the same percentiles to each other, otherwise the comparison is not valid. American public schools are preparing the students just as well if not better than elsewhere, the difference is that ALL students are being funneled into college when many of them should be doing other things. That is not the fault of the school system.
Look what happens when more than just the top students are sent into these programs:
"My research team at Duke looked in depth at the engineering education of China and India. We documented that these countries now graduate four to seven times as many engineers as does the U.S.The quality of these engineers, however, is so poor that most are not fit to work as engineers; their system of rote learning handicaps those who do get jobs, so it takes two to three years for them to achieve the same productivity as fresh American graduates."
Things have, radically, changed since I graduated from engineering school then. New graduates were not described as "productive" in my day. It took about 3 years of experience before I reached the point you could call me productive as an engineer and I graduated at the top of my class.
IMO, it takes 2-3 years for any engineer to reach a point where they'd be considered productive. Engineering school doesn't teach you how to be an engineer. It helps you grow an engineers brain. Training teaches you to be an engineer.
Henry, you don't know much and you certainly don't know anything about school districts, or high school algebra and it's application to the trades. Nope, not at all. Because I'll tell you what, if any school administrator claimed what you claimed, that being, hs algebra is somehow different than the math used in the trades, they would be an idiot, and in no way be competent to lead a school or district. As I pointed out by just analyzing a handbook for the trades, it's nothing but high school math.
So just stop, please, just stop, you don't work in a school district, it isn't outstanding in the trades because as pointed out if they believed anything you claimed, they would be imbeciles, and as bad as the state of US k-12 is, it isn't so bad that they would in any way allow that kind of incompetency to walk the halls.
But lets just say for arguments sake that you are telling the truth. Maybe that would explain why the military is having to lower standards in order to meet their enlistment quotas for lower grade enlistees. That's why the Pentagon refused to release the data which shows the lack of quality of recruits and only did so when facing a FOIA suit. The Pentagon didn't want the public to know the full extent of what is taking place with US schools, and the lengths they've had to go to in order to fill the manpower requirements. Because if the school district that you worked for did hire the imbeciles who believed what you claimed they did, it would explain the idiots produced by that school district who are showing up to enlist in the military. It would explain why nearly half of Ohio university freshmen need to take remedial math and English, in order to undo the damage done by schools districts such as the one you reference, and it would further explain why 21 other states are doing away with their remedial university courses, because the damage done by said school districts is so vast, that they haven't the resources to overcome that mess.
Which takes us right back to the original article's claim, that being, that US is way ahead of other nations. Henry, again, if what you claimed were true and you weren't lying, then I can assure you that the educators of other nation's aren't stupid enough to believe that hs math has no application to the trades. I can assure that they have picked up books similar to the one that I referenced, could see for themselves the obvious, and would work very hard to get their students ready by not believing anything your district believes. Which further goes the fact as to why US corps are busy lowering H1-B/L visa status, because the educators of nations such as China and India, among others, have opened a book, read it, and understood what seemed to have slipped right past that merry bunch of yahoos who work at school districts such as yours.
Henry, it seems that you've come to a crossroads of sorts. Either what you claimed isn't true and you don't work at any school district, or you do, and the folks who run it are so idiotic, that they didn't bother to read books such as the one that I referenced, and failed to see the value of their high school math curriculum's application to the trades. It's got to be one or the other.
Henry, if your knowledge of the military is anything like that of your knowledge of hs algebra and it's relevancy to the trades, then it's not laughable, but pitiful....
Please learn to read.
Henry never said anything about Algebra, I did.
Honestly, the fact you cannot keep names straight or follow a thread combines with your inability to grasp two step thinking makes it pointless to have a conversation with you. Good luck to you.
That 70% is inflated by all the students at community colleges working on Associates degrees in non-academic disciplines. They aren't educated people being further educated, they are square pegs being rounded to fit grunt jobs, which have been done for centuries by people with no education at all and a bit of apprenticeship.
If they are non-academic tracks then they do not have to take remedial classes.
And for those that do need, the most basic is about integers and rational numbers and using a calculator.
K-12 and these people need help with fractions ? They got that low of scores on the placement test ?
Forget about algebra.
Last edited by HappyTexan; 06-30-2012 at 10:47 AM..
That 70% is inflated by all the students at community colleges working on Associates degrees in non-academic disciplines. They aren't educated people being further educated, they are square pegs being rounded to fit grunt jobs, which have been done for centuries by people with no education at all and a bit of apprenticeship.
True. And it is also why so many kids are in remedial classes. Community colleges have larger percentages of students in remedial classes compared to universities.
Additionally, many of those kids in those programs, used to go into the military. And while they likely would have done fine on the military placement tests given to enlistees, they are frequently not ready academically for college.
If they are non-academic tracks then they do not have to take remedial classes.
And for those that do need, the most basic is about integers and rational numbers and using a calculator.
K-12 and these people need help with fractions ? They got that low of scores on the placement test ?
Forget about algebra.
Oh, in my area any one going into various certificate programs (automotive repair, autocad, carpentry, landscape design, etc) at the local community college have to take placement tests and have minimum math and communications requirements. Some of those kids also have to take remedial classes.
Apparently that is not the case at your local community college?
Oh, in my area any one going into various certificate programs (automotive repair, autocad, carpentry, landscape design, etc) at the local community college have to take placement tests and have minimum math and communications requirements. Some of those kids also have to take remedial classes.
Apparently that is not the case at your local community college?
All have to take an English test (ESOL) if English is not your primary language because the classes are in English.
But not all have to take the math test. It's program dependent. http://www.austincc.edu/cataloghtml/assesment.php
I think schools simply want to make kids stupid now days.
-They've cut....music, arts. History. Logic. Reasoning. Notice a pattern here? Classes that give you higher order thinking are cut.
-They've cut library hours and reading in elementary schools. How many other industrialized countries have cut library hours to the bone in elementary school like we have? That's a time when kids should be most encouraged to read.
I think the author is using the wrong analogies and examples. China, India (Asia) are laying track. Like laying track for a railroad. If China is so poor on tests, why are they going to put a man on the moon this decade? Their space program is going to outrank ours (if it hasn't already).
"America remains the world leader in innovation". I think in part because of immigrants? What percent of UC Berkley engineering or Stanford is Asian?
-The author also forgets or leaves out....asia simply has a stronger science background. It has nothing to do with PISA rankings. The politicans have science backgrounds, and understand it a heck of a lot better than ours. Our politicians are lawyers, bankers or ....maroons like sarah palin, lol.
Henry, it seems that you've come to a crossroads of sorts. Either what you claimed isn't true and you don't work at any school district, or you do, and the folks who run it are so idiotic, that they didn't bother to read books such as the one that I referenced, and failed to see the value of their high school math curriculum's application to the trades. It's got to be one or the other.
Can you find the word "algebra" in any one of my posts?
Seems that your reading comprehension is so poor that you can't even figure out who you are addressing.
So, how does that bode for the rest of your flawed analysis?
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