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Actually, I'm not. They go together. However, this question isn't about me. It's a general question stemming from a comment someone made recently about preferring a teacher who doesn't know their content who is liked to one who does know their content but isn't liked with liked meaning just liked by the students and nothing more/less. We're not talking other issues like unfairness. I find that odd thinking. In my case, data supports that I am effective. I happen to be effective because I know my content inside out and upside down. So I find someone saying that being liked but not having content knowledge is preferable. I have and would prefer the opposite. You can't learn what the teacher does not know whether you like them or not.
I would prefer my children had teachers who knew their content over teachers who don't that they might like better. I don't think likability trumps content knowledge. I'm baffled by that way of thinking. It's ok to not know your content if you're liked makes no sense to me. I was just wondering if others felt the same way I do. So far, that answer would be yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Ugh...I gave a choice between two different teachers. I did not make a declaration of anything in general. One has rock solid content but isn't particularly liked while the other is weak in their content but the kids love them. I asked which would be more valuable when choosing between these two teachers.
People are reading way too much into this. It was a simple question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Tell that to my principal. He's convinced you cannot be a good teacher unless you're friends with your students. He's observed me on days when I hit home runs. Days when the kids were on task, asking questions, learning was evident and then zinged me bcause I didn't spend the first five minutes of the hour chit chatting. I started the hour with "The bell has rung, your bellwork is on the board", instead of asking them how their day was going.
I find I can't do that kind of chit chat without losing control of my class. I have to run with my strength which is content knowledge. I teach bell to bell and move from one activity to the next as seamlessly as possible. If I can keep my kids on task, I don't have behavior issues. Unfortunately, this makes me an absolute flop at supervising academic assist classes where kids are supposed to be doing homework and getting help. Most treat it like a social hour and try not to work (I have no idea how they get away with giving credit for this class) and I never have figured out how to motivate them to work. I can't use the content to control the class.
In my science classes, the kids may or may not like me (I really don't care one way or the other) but they get something out of the class and that is what matters to me. I find that success is the greatest motivator and that kids who are successful are unlikely to be behavior problems. Of course I lucked out and didn't get an academic assist class this year or a whack a mole class. Teaching would be really fun this year if I didn't have my principal to deal with. I've been flying high this year because things just seem to be going so well in the classroom and then had my first goal setting session with him and walked out just deflated. I went home and instead of grading papers or rewriting a lab I needed to edit I applied for 6 jobs. How can I feel so successful in the classroom and then feel like a total failure when I walk out of a one hour meeting with this man?
Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread. I'm just curious as to which people will choose if given a choice between the two teachers I described above.
But it's not about you right?
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I'm surprised you don't remember liking any teachers in high school - just either neutral or dislike (with cause). I find that unusual. I definitely remember the teachers that made the most impact to me and my crowd. Some were "popular" and some were liked and all were respected. They all had content knowledge (probably to varying degrees). I do remember some "lame" teachers that everyone knew didn't have much going on. They generally were neutral, not respected. If they were "popular" it was for other reasons (coaching or school involvement).
I'd say the same for my kids' (fairly recent) high school experiences. Their favorite teachers (who were generally well liked) were not classes they got A's in. My daughter's favorite teachers were English and AP Government. Those were not her strengths but she enjoyed the teachers and she worked hard. My son's favorite teachers were generally his math teachers. So well-liked teachers are not always non-required classes.
Being liked is important as a high school teacher. It's not necessarily the same thing as being popular or being "pals" with students. It's about being kind, approachable, concerned, and real. The teachers who students sense dislike them or are trying too hard to seem like they care or are contemptuous of them...they'll tune them out and their content knowledge becomes irrelevant. If a teacher cannot bring his or herself to like her students and care about them (speaking as whole, not necessarily as individuals), they really have no business teaching, no matter how much they know or what they feel about "raising the bar". Teach at a higher level or move on to a different type of work where that kind of interaction isn't necessary.
Last edited by maciesmom; 10-17-2013 at 03:29 PM..
I really liked lots of my high school teachers. I still think fondly of my AP physics and AP English teachers. Neither was my favorite subject...but the teachers clearly cared about us and got to know us personally and knew what made us tick. Least favorite class was my algebra 2 class. I was by far the best at math, but the teacher was cold, impersonal, and didn't seem to care if we passed/failed/burst into tears in the middle of class, or what. I think part of me became a teacher to save kids from that experience in their math careers.
I really liked lots of my high school teachers. I still think fondly of my AP physics and AP English teachers. Neither was my favorite subject...but the teachers clearly cared about us and got to know us personally and knew what made us tick. Least favorite class was my algebra 2 class. I was by far the best at math, but the teacher was cold, impersonal, and didn't seem to care if we passed/failed/burst into tears in the middle of class, or what. I think part of me became a teacher to save kids from that experience in their math careers.
It's interesting how experiences vary. I can't say I liked many of my teachers. I was taught to respect them and listen to them and I knew that learning the material was expected of me so it didn't matter whether I liked them as people or not. I had a couple I really couldn't stand but you pass the class and move on. That's just life but I went to school in another era when respect for elders was expected and learning was the responsibility of the student.
I did have one teacher who did a lot of damage. I had her for two years in a row. I almost went to her retirement party to tell her off but decided I'd probably slug her and end up being arrested and she wasn't worth it. I swear she became a teacher because she hated kids and teaching gave her authority over kids.
Honestly, it doesn't sound like the issue is students not liking you, but the principal not liking you. It also doesn't sound like you are viewed as an incredibly versatile, adaptible, or flexible teacher, which could be a problem.
I don't think I have a problem with the kids or, for the most part their parents. My principal is another story. I've come to the conclusion I could walk on water and he'd fault me for getting the bottoms of my feet wet.
The classes I have issues with are the classes all the teachers have issues with only in my principal's eyes, it's me when I have problems in those classes and just the mix of kids when the next teacher over has problems with that class. Here's a funny. I was actually told to go observe a teacher who has a whack a mole class that he cannot control this year because he gets along so great with the kids and they listen to him???? He's already had to have the assistant principal in twice because he was about to lose it with them. I've had to send students from my class into his class on lab days because he can't handle them. I just thank God I didn't get that class because it would be proof of my incompetence. It's funny how things are overlooked for some teachers and used to slam someone else. I'd like a picture of the look on my face when my principal told me to go observe how he interacts with the kids given he's having the kinds of problems he is. I know it's just the mix of kids but if I had that class, it would be ammunition to fire me.
Every teacher I've talked to who supervises academic assist has the same complaint. The kids don't want to work and they have no power to do anything if they don't want to work. I had one girl in my academic assist class last year whose father would call her off for the hour because she didn't need to attend the class because I refused to let her go hang out in the library every day. Of course she got credit for the class because all of her absences were excused. She used to make a starbucks run during that hour then she'd go interrupt several classes making deliveries when she got back. Why bother signing up for an academic assistance class and not actually getting the assistance? That kind of crap chaps my butt. IMO, she should not have gotten credit for the class but we're not allowed to hold excused absences against students.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 10-17-2013 at 08:41 PM..
I don't think either option is particularly effective. However, the teacher whom the kids like will be more effective at teaching the children than the one the kids do not like. If a teacher can't relate to the students, then no matter how much they know about the subject, the kids will learn less. I'd rather have a teacher who knows less but is able to engage with the students and fully share all they know. I think a teacher can learn more about a subject area and overcome that deficit far more easily than a teacher can learn to engage with the students. You can change knowledge more easily than personality.
With the the instant gratification standards of today, I'm a little surprised at the poll results.
You know, you're right. I can see why kids like the fun teacher over the one that teaches them and demands something of them but it is surprising that adults aren't going that direction in large numbers too.
One of my students, who did not like me as a teacher, come back to visit this week and he was complaining about his bumbling college chemistry professor and how the demos he does often go awry. He was talking about one such mishap and I just smiled because he remembered enough of what I taught him to know why the professor's demo had gone wrong. These are the moments a teacher lives for.
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