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Sports is one of the biggest problems with 2nd level education.
here is the big secret, Other developed countries don't tie sports so closely to education as the USA does. They don't waste millions on football, they don't worship the students who excel on the field, they don't have cheerleader, they don't encourage the children to compete on a social level instead of an educational one.
If we simply removed all sport, from schools we would solve the ed problem in a single generation. But the egos of the local parents, the egos of the school administration mean that will not happen.
Get rid of the sports and stick to physical education. Get rid of the elections , cheerleader, football teams. Get rid of the home coming queens, and prom kings. Get rid of all the social stratification and remodel the schools to reflect the goals of modern education.
Other democratic countries are spending half as much money per child and producing much more highly educated students. why do you think it takes 4 years in a US college to teach what takes 3 in many EU based colleges? Well here is a hint, the kids going into 3rd level schools in much of the EU are already educated to common standards and don't need a foundation year to get started.
But it's the matter of money, there's massive profit in college football, and they need school football to get the players trained.
I agree that it should be scaled down drastically if not completely eliminated. And I agree that school should teach kids to respect one another, not help promote and install social inequality via popularity contests. This is one thing luckily missing from many private schools.
The biggest problem with our education system is how schools are structured. When students come to school, they immediately sit at their desk learning how to pass a test, not how to work cooperatively, creatively think and solve problems. Most education systems are structured this way, so education in other countries isn’t better than us.
Society is divided on how we should reform the education system, and we as a whole have no clear idea what is the purpose of education. A user on this thread said
Quote:
Our schools are not rigorous enough anymore.
Then we have parents who redshirt their children (redshirting is when parents send their children to kindergarten one year after they're supposed to). Many parents favor redshirting.
Mod cut - removed links. New posters cannot post links.
So I guess many kids are being taught 1 grade level below.
Then we have people who say that our students are behind other countries. First, to know if we're behind other countries, we have to know how well each country is doing. How did we find out how other countries are doing? Every 3 years, 15 year olds from 65 countries (including the US) take a standardized test called PISA, and we compare the results. We cry how standardized testing is bad and then use a standardized test to decide we are behind other countries.
Then users on this thread say that the problem is that parents don't teach life skills anymore.
Quote:
A kid is stuck with the parents for 18+ years, the teacher only has a student for 8 months
Then what is the point of going to school if parents are supposed to be the ones teaching everything? Why not just eliminate schools (maybe except for reading and arithmetic) and make the parents teach everything?
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I personally believe in the engineering model of teaching, where students find a problem, and are given a problem and then work in groups to solve it. For example (and this is an EXAMPLE) the problem is an umbrella breaks and inverts when it's too windy. Students work in groups to design an umbrella that doesn't break and invert. Students decide to duct tape the umbrella, and then test out if it works and if the umbrella can still close. I like that model of education. In the context of education, when we say cooperation, we mean cooperating with the teacher, not cooperating with each other. In quality classrooms, the teacher is the listener / facilitator and students are teaching each other, sharing ideas, investigating facts and then applying it to real life, etc.
The definition of "education" is systematic instruction intended to prepare people for an intellectually challenging life. Pedagogy is how we practice or implement education. That's what we need to reform, not raise test scores, or "more rigorous standards."
Another problem is the control we have on our students. Back in high school we went to pick up our schedules. No learning was taking place yet the deans harassed a student for refusing to take of his hat. John Doe repeatedly disrupted the class and got suspended once a week. He was bullying students in one particular incident and got lunch detention for one week. A well behaved girl in the same class refused to take off her hat for two months and got all day detention until she decided to take off her hat. NYCDOE doesn't allow students to wear hats. We also complain about how schools have no-hugging policies yet do not about it.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 05-13-2015 at 07:03 AM..
But it's the matter of money, there's massive profit in college football, and they need school football to get the players trained.
I agree that it should be scaled down drastically if not completely eliminated. And I agree that school should teach kids to respect one another, not help promote and install social inequality via popularity contests. This is one thing luckily missing from many private schools.
People are always saying there is massive money, but my kids middle school has a few million dollars worth of fake grass , stands , fields and tracks, along with more sport equipment than they could ever use, and not a single dollar has ever been made.
MY local college UW in Washington, forces each and every new student to pay over $1,000 a year into a slush fund for football. they claim it covers other stuff but almost all of the monies head over to football. If it is so profitable why does a wealthy powerful college force the students to subsidize it? And when you dig you will find most colleges are forcing students to help fund the football players....
People are always saying there is massive money, but my kids middle school has a few million dollars worth of fake grass , stands , fields and tracks, along with more sport equipment than they could ever use, and not a single dollar has ever been made.
MY local college UW in Washington, forces each and every new student to pay over $1,000 a year into a slush fund for football. they claim it covers other stuff but almost all of the monies head over to football. If it is so profitable why does a wealthy powerful college force the students to subsidize it? And when you dig you will find most colleges are forcing students to help fund the football players....
So getting rid of collegiate sports will solve our education "problem"? Interesting.
So getting rid of collegiate sports will solve our education "problem"? Interesting.
*TrafficCory not a team sports fan.
It is my belief that combining sports with high school is a very large distraction and has both economic and social costs, that are negatively impacting the rest of the school community.
And while removing sport from High schools and Middle schools is not a magic wand, it is about as close as we will come to one for the foreseeable future.
Well at least until we find a way to completely overhaul the entire system from top to bottom.
People are always saying there is massive money, but my kids middle school has a few million dollars worth of fake grass , stands , fields and tracks, along with more sport equipment than they could ever use, and not a single dollar has ever been made.
MY local college UW in Washington, forces each and every new student to pay over $1,000 a year into a slush fund for football. they claim it covers other stuff but almost all of the monies head over to football. If it is so profitable why does a wealthy powerful college force the students to subsidize it? And when you dig you will find most colleges are forcing students to help fund the football players....
It's profitable, but most likely the profits are privatized while expenses are socialized, the true American way
The biggest problem with our education system is how schools are structured. When students come to school, they immediately sit at their desk learning how to pass a test, not how to work cooperatively, creatively think and solve problems. Most education systems are structured this way, so education in other countries isn’t better than us.
How many schools in different countries have you attended ?
Have you ever seen the stats per country ? We're in the gutters as far as the developed world is concerned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie1215
Society is divided on how we should reform the education system, and we as a whole have no clear idea what is the purpose of education.
It was fairly clear for ages, yet all of a sudden we don't know it anymore ? The system is turning out morons at an alarming rate. The schools turn out kids without even basic knowledge of the world they live in, without solid basic math, science and English skills, without the habit of studying and retaining information, so clearly our current education system "has no clear idea what is the purpose of education". Somehow my schools did. The system is broken.
Then we have people who say that our students are behind other countries. First, to know if we're behind other countries, we have to know how well each country is doing. How did we find out how other countries are doing? Every 3 years, 15 year olds from 65 countries (including the US) take a standardized test called PISA, and we compare the results. We cry how standardized testing is bad and then use a standardized test to decide we are behind other countries.
That's because instead of teaching kids math and sciences, we prepare them for taking the test. The other countries teach them math and sciences (and history and biology and...) so that they can take the test if they are required to. The test shouldn't be the goal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie1215
Then users on this thread say that the problem is that parents don't teach life skills anymore. Then what is the point of going to school if parents are supposed to be the ones teaching everything? Why not just eliminate schools (maybe except for reading and arithmetic) and make the parents teach everything?
Good school system (system, not just individual teachers) means that all parents have to do is make sure the kids are current with their HW and are getting good grades.
Poor system means that parents must step in and pick up the slack. Not all of them know how to, or care enough.
______________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie1215
I personally believe in the engineering model of teaching, where students find a problem, and are given a problem and then work in groups to solve it. For example (and this is an EXAMPLE) the problem is an umbrella breaks and inverts when it's too windy. Students work in groups to design an umbrella that doesn't break and invert. Students decide to duct tape the umbrella, and then test out if it works and if the umbrella can still close. I like that model of education. In the context of education, when we say cooperation, we mean cooperating with the teacher, not cooperating with each other. In quality classrooms, the teacher is the listener / facilitator and students are teaching each other, sharing ideas, investigating facts and then applying it to real life, etc.
So, instead of making sure that you teach the kids individually so each one is capable of solving a problem on their own, you'd rather put them in groups so some work and the others inevitably (willingly or not) slack off ? That's how it happens in the real world. As an engineer, I can tell you that a team problem solving approach works when every member of that team has enough skill to solve the problem on their own. Then and only then you get the synergy. And this means that each one of them has to be taught and trained individually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie1215
The definition of "education" is systematic instruction intended to prepare people for an intellectually challenging life. Pedagogy is how we practice or implement education. That's what we need to reform, not raise test scores, or "more rigorous standards."
Another problem is the control we have on our students. Back in high school we went to pick up our schedules. No learning was taking place yet the deans harassed a student for refusing to take of his hat. John Doe repeatedly disrupted the class and got suspended once a week. He was bullying students in one particular incident and got lunch detention for one week. A well behaved girl in the same class refused to take off her hat for two months and got all day detention until she decided to take off her hat. NYCDOE doesn't allow students to wear hats. We also complain about how schools have no-hugging policies yet do not about it.
People are always saying there is massive money, but my kids middle school has a few million dollars worth of fake grass , stands , fields and tracks, along with more sport equipment than they could ever use, and not a single dollar has ever been made.
MY local college UW in Washington, forces each and every new student to pay over $1,000 a year into a slush fund for football. they claim it covers other stuff but almost all of the monies head over to football. If it is so profitable why does a wealthy powerful college force the students to subsidize it? And when you dig you will find most colleges are forcing students to help fund the football players....
College sports are big money and everytime there was a home game at SiuC Alumnus and their families and They would spend buying stuff which puts University and community's pocket. It also provides for jobs for Students.
College sports are big money and everytime there was a home game at SiuC Alumnus and their families and They would spend buying stuff which puts University and community's pocket. It also provides for jobs for Students.
And the colleges jack up tuition to maintain the sports team. Somebody profits from this, but it's not the students or the parents. When college sports were starting in the XIX century, they were a club system fully paid by the participants. Now it's a huge and very expensive business. And it's not self sustainable. Just make a Goggle search on " college tuition sports teams expenses"
"Students were charged more than $795 million to support sports programs at 222 Division I public schools during the 2008-09 school year, according to an analysis of thousands of pages of financial documents"
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