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Good catch! Actually the course name is "Advanced Math Topics" and the description says it includes Linear Algebra, Multivariable Calculus, and an independent project. We haven't gotten to this course yet.
Combining both makes this a high school class for those past BC. If so, that would not be altogether bad. However, you and your kid need to make sure that is what you want.
If the course is filled with high achieving seniors and a great math teacher, it could be an amazing class. Linear Algebra and MVC in college--you are on your own, sink or swim, often with mediocre professors in terms of their teaching.
In many countries in Europe, having both taught simultaneously is kind of par for the course.
Only the better US high schools would offer such a class. Presumably your school also teaches four years of physics ending with a year of AP Physics C? If so, you are very, very fortunate!
Combining both makes this a high school class for those past BC. If so, that would not be altogether bad. However, you and your kid need to make sure that is what you want.
If the course is filled with high achieving seniors and a great math teacher, it could be an amazing class. Linear Algebra and MVC in college--you are on your own, sink or swim, often with mediocre professors in terms of their teaching.
In many countries in Europe, having both taught simultaneously is kind of par for the course.
Only the better US high schools would offer such a class. Presumably your school also teaches four years of physics ending with a year of AP Physics C? If so, you are very, very fortunate!
S.
Yes, the Math Topics (post AP Calc BC course) is an advanced HS course (not distance college course) filled with high-achieving students and a strong Math teacher. My D is looking forward to this course.
And yes, we are in a better US public high school. She plans on taking AP Physics C as a senior. But we worry that she has no prep HS Physics course for AP Physics C - her Junior year Calculus BC is the only required prerequisite.
Her counselor says this is fine, but I know D is a bit worried since she hasn't seen formal physics instruction since seventh grade. She is a very strong math student, so maybe that's enough?
She is considering enrolling in a summer Physics 1 course before senior year as a prep. She will not have room for Physics 1/2 in her school year schedule, and her summers are filled with camps/music tours, so it will be somewhat difficult to add a Physics course.
This is her science class sequence
7th - gifted Physics
8th - gifted Biology
9th - Honors Chemistry
10th - AP Chemistry (2 class periods)
11th - AP Biology (2 class periods)
12th - AP Physics C (only AP Calc BC is the prereq)
Sandpointian - Are you a math/science teacher? Any advice on prepping for AP Physics C?
12th grade = AB Calculus (first semester) & BC Calculus (second semester)
Regular track had students take Algebra I in 9th grade and they end with Pre-Calc/Trig in 12th grade. Unless you were planning on being a math major, engineer, pre-med etc., the regular track for math was sufficient. I had to take matricies & vectors (Linear Algebra), statistics, social statistics, Calc I and II in college. My university was pretty rigid about using AP credits for getting out of required math courses. They were way more flexible on government, history and English.
12th grade = AB Calculus (first semester) & BC Calculus (second semester)
Regular track had students take Algebra I in 9th grade and they end with Pre-Calc/Trig in 12th grade. Unless you were planning on being a math major, engineer, pre-med etc., the regular track for math was sufficient. I had to take matricies & vectors (Linear Algebra), statistics, social statistics, Calc I and II in college. My university was pretty rigid about using AP credits for getting out of required math courses. They were way more flexible on government, history and English.
The last, and I think I've mentioned it, is pretty standard for colleges and AP. Typically most do not grant AP credit, or even class exemption, for courses offered in the major.
My three kids who went to college all faced that, the oldest in Art, the second in Engineering (no credit for his 5s in Calc AB, BC or Physics) and none for US or World History for the third, although she did get credit for a Lit class as did her older sister.
And yes, we are in a better US public high school. She plans on taking AP Physics C as a senior. But we worry that she has no prep HS Physics course for AP Physics C - her Junior year Calculus BC is the only required prerequisite.
Her counselor says this is fine, but I know D is a bit worried since she hasn't seen formal physics instruction since seventh grade. She is a very strong math student, so maybe that's enough?
First, congrats on having your daughter in a school that offers both Advanced Math and Physics C. She will be prepared for the rigour of almost any university program's freshman year.
Physics C without any Physics background. Hmmmm...I do not think many kids or teachers can pull that off very easily. Far less fun, too, than all the hands on time learning about physics.While Calc BC maybe the only official pre-req, I would think sound physics intuition is the implicit pre-req.
If your daughter is only in middle school, then I would try to avoid that happening. The recommended pathway is now
Honors Physics (Ideal: Honors Pre-Calc)--> AP Physics 1 (Ideal: Honors Pre-Calc)--> AP Physics 2 (Ideal: Honors Pre-Calc)--> AP Physics C: Mechanics (with Calc)--> AP Physics C: Electricity and Magnetism (with Calc)
Mastering Physics is all about developing intuition on how to set up abstract representations of natural phenomena. Your daughter can best develop this through the Honors/AP Physics 1/AP Physics 2 sequence.
Note: all along I am assuming "all else equal" and that your daughter is a garden variety "very smart cookie."
Math is less of an an issue in Physics than the intuition. Calc offers a chance to translate that intuition into more elegant forms and brings with it the machinery to extend, but that is what university is for
Physics C Mechanics is only one semester long. Honors plus AP Physics 1 would give at least a year to develop that intuition.
Also, If your daughter only takes Mechanics than she would sacrifice time on Electricity and Magnetism, Light and Heat, and maybe even a baby intro to quantum mechanics.
On the other side of the ledger, AP Physics C is a strong signal that your daughter is a top student among top students.
If the object of the exercise is to get in Elite School X and major in being an elite school student (I say that half jokingly as this was the case for many I knew), then an A and 5 on the AP Physics C exam(s) is a great signal or intellectual prowess. If instead the goal is to educate your daughter and develop her as a scientist, then the Honors/AP Physics 1/AP Physics 2 would be ideal.
On this tactical note, Honors/AP Physics 1/AP Physics 2 + LinAlg/MVC would be powerful signal...enough?
In the perfect world, she does both. She takes Honors/AP Physics 1/AP Physics 2/AP Physics C: Mechanics and E&M.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1
She is considering enrolling in a summer Physics 1 course before senior year as a prep. She will not have room for Physics 1/2 in her school year schedule, and her summers are filled with camps/music tours, so it will be somewhat difficult to add a Physics course.
Summer: Hmmm...once they hit their teen years, my daughters protected their summers in the way a mama grizzly protects her cubs.
AP Physics 1 over the summer would be a lot of work. I would consider having her do an online MOOC in the summer. If she bails, no skin off your back and no loss of $.
But again the question: how much of this is tactical and how much deepening her physics intuition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1
This is her science class sequence
7th - gifted Physics
8th - gifted Biology
9th - Honors Chemistry
10th - AP Chemistry (2 class periods)
11th - AP Biology (2 class periods)
12th - AP Physics C (only AP Calc BC is the prereq)
Hmm...is this the Stanford OHS curriculum?
If so, I will write up a different response later.
Is the following possible?
7th - gifted Physics
8th - gifted Biology
9th - AP Biology & Honors Chemistry
10th - AP Chemistry & AP Physics 1
11th - AP Physics 2
12th - AP Physics C
If you are restricted to one per year (which would be a bummer), then I would (a) flip AP Bio and AP Chem. AP Chem requires a more mature mind. AP Bio does not require AP Chem and is generally considered a Sophomore exam. I would consider do the following
7th - gifted Physics
8th - gifted Biology
9th - Honors Chemistry + 1/3 of a good Honors Physics Course (like at CTY) (school year and summer)
10th - AP Biology + 1/3 of a good Honors Physics Course (like at CTY) (school year and summer)
11th - AP Chemistry + 1/3 of a good Honors Physics Course (like at CTY) (school year and summer)
12th - AP Physics C (only AP Calc BC is the prereq)
By spreading out the Honors Physics sequence, that institution can brew overtime. You can supplement it with problems from materials from AP Physics 1 and 2. Will not kill summers nor add too much burden over the school year. BUT...and this is vitally important...it will require your Daughter's desire to do so. Trust me, no guarantee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1
Sandpointian - Are you a math/science teacher? Any advice on prepping for AP Physics C?
I was an engineer and university professor. And my two daughters maxed out of everything up to the point, of thinking I was a madman!
Advice on AP Physics C is all above: get that intuition down. The Calc involved is trivial. The problem solving skills from physics are unique in math/sciences and for most require great skill and time to develop.
Thank you for your thorough response. I will respond more later, but wanted to charify that my daughter is a sophomore. She is now taking accelerated pre-calculus and AP Chem.
Thank you for your thorough response. I will respond more later, but wanted to charify that my daughter is a sophomore. She is now taking accelerated pre-calculus and AP Chem.
S - I did speak to the Physics C teacher and he said her Calc BC should be enough prep for the course, but I think she'll still do some sort of Physics 1 prep (teacher recommended "The Physics Classroom"). Physics C is a year-long 2 semester course that begins with a review of Physics 1.
Also, I think Physics C (not just Physics 1) is needed for the SAT Physics test, so unfortunately she probably won't be taking this test in time for college applications - unless she wants to take Physics C concurrently with Calc BC and AP Biology during Junior year, which sounds like too much...
I think she's interested in chemical engineering, biomechanical, biomed, or biochem at this point. Her AP Chem teacher just told her about a new Chem independent research program she may do.
Anyhow, thanks again and feel free to give me more advice...
S - I did speak to the Physics C teacher and he said her Calc BC should be enough prep for the course, but I think she'll still do some sort of Physics 1 prep (teacher recommended "The Physics Classroom"). Physics C is a year-long 2 semester course that begins with a review of Physics 1.
Hmmm...I cannot agree with that advice in general.
Maybe I am dated here. But the year long, Physics C is first semester Mechanics and Second semester Electricity and Magnetism?
No doubt Physics 1 is reviewed. But Physics is not math.
Perhaps the teacher knows your kid?
Also, be sure to pin down the expectations of the teacher. If success is a "3," then best you know that up front.
But let me step back from things. If your kid will get any exposure to Physics C, that is pretty darn cool. But do examine your child's goals.
It is amazing how rigorous a class you can teach using algebra. The stuff that Calculus is most valuable is really not so necessary to know at the high school level. I would rather the child develop a deeper intuition and love for the subject.
All this may be moot. But hopefully if you understand what I am trying to communicate you will not make the mistake of being tempted to rest on one's laurels.
I think it would be helpful to talk to a seasoned Physics professor at your local university. A question like, "I am trying to decide between Physics 1 and Physics C but I have no Physics background. What should I do?" I cannot imagine any prof pushing Physics C in that context. Also, while you can earn college credit by nailing Physics C, top universities do not accept the AP credit in lieu of taking mechanics or E&M in university. In fact, many of us wince at how liberal units are given under the presumption that a great high school class substitutes for the university class. Not my classes...
Let me take a step back and reflect that I am splitting hairs here. Like going from low A+ to high A+. LOL. But it is a fun exercise nevertheless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1
:
Also, I think Physics C (not just Physics 1) is needed for the SAT Physics test, so unfortunately she probably won't be taking this test in time for college applications - unless she wants to take Physics C concurrently with Calc BC and AP Biology during Junior year, which sounds like too much...
Hmm...I am surprised that Physics C is need for the SAT Physics test since the SAT subject tests are fairly basic. I would have guessed it was the opposite. But I defer.
Physics C concurrently with Calc BC and AP Biology: that would be a lot! Physics C and Calc BC would not be bad at all. AP Bio is a huge memorization exam. Me no like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1
:
I think she's interested in chemical engineering, biomechanical, biomed, or biochem at this point. Her AP Chem teacher just told her about a new Chem independent research program she may do.
Basic first year Physics is needed. Not much more.
Chem E means engineering. And that lots of cool intro to X engineering classes. Knowing mechanics inside and out is vital.
CHem E--I have a lot of respect for. My daughter is in a related area.
I think independent work early is a great with only one condition: that she alone motivates herself in the area.
She sounds like she is really on the ball. Congrats on your parenting.
Be sure to consider "exit options." Math and Physics are the best disciplines from which to leave being a purist. Applied math is everywhere. A decent background in physics means engineering is always an option and chemistry is a first cousin.
Bio is trickier. So I like the Chem E, Bio Engineering, Bio Chem, Bio Mechanical, biomed angles.
I'll end by reiterating my suggestion that she do the equivalent of a good honors Physics class with algebra. I recommend Giancoli.
Took it first in 11th grade but flunked it so I had to replace it with personal finance. So I took algebra 2 in my senior year, barely passed it.
Algebra 2 is a waste of time. Haven't used it since graduating six years ago. Finance class however was useful.
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