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I realize you are burdened by nonsensical rules, please don't prejudge what I wouldn't want. I raise my son to take accountability for all of his actions and that includes his test scores is you want to post his scores on the front door of the school and he is ashamed of the results he better study harder next time.
Can you answer this? Did they miss the same questions?
This has already been explained as a violation of federal law. Your wants do not over ride federal law.
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I realize you want me to take your word for this but I don't think you are sacrosanct or infallible; you do make mistakes right?
Wait, so you think the teacher in the example given is hallucinating?
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Son, don't humiliate yourself and give away your integrity; did you or did you not knowingly allow this kid to copy off of you? N/Y assuming N
Well Mr. educator it seems there are only three possibilities.
My son is a liar.
You are a liar.
You are in error.
This is exactly why students this age are not typically in these meeting. Parents watch law and order and suddenly think they get to play lawyer.
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Regardless of which is true I don't have any faith that you are capable of being object towards my son after this incident. Therefore we will need to move to a different teacher.
Because a teacher caught a student cheating they can't be "object"-ive? Why do you think that?
The vast majority, nearly 86% of students admit to cheating (which btw does include allowing other to copy answers). Teachers know this, if we couldn't be objective after a student cheats and moved them to another class, they would be moving all the students all the time.
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I would appreciate it if you could proctor my son a different version of the test at your convenience. Y/N
assuming N
You see the reality is my son doesn't know this other student and has a documented Stanford Benet V IQ of 138. He doesn't have to cheat to pass your test and he there is no logical reason why he would go against every value our family holds dear and sacrifice his integrity for a stranger.
You appear to acting out a scenario about your own child rather than the OP. The teacher stated that the OPs daughter cheated by allowing another student to see her test. So the teacher never said the student needed to cheat to pass.
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Assuming the answer is still N
Well I have tried to be reasonable with you Mr. Educator but for some reason you want to see how far we can push this. I can only assume you aren't a fool and already have your boss the principal in your back pocket. Therefore I will be seeing the superintendent tomorrow; I will mention other concerns as to your teaching (throw dirt here). Ultimately I guess my lawyer Mr. Straihorn will have to handle it after that as I really don't have the time to dedicate to this right now. Should you reconsider you have my email. I strongly caution you not to take retaliatory action against my son based on our differences.
If it wasn't so sad this part would be funny. It is a fairly typical response of parents whose children cheat often to do the above. It also doesn't work. But sure be labeled the parent who threatens a lawyer when their child makes a mistake. The irony is the best course of action based on the scenario OldHag gave is to give your child tools to prevent others from cheating off her paper so this never happens again. OP kids make mistakes, your response to this mistake will make the difference between reinforcing the behavior or changing it.
This looks like a very good template to base the conservation on. I have already emailed the teacher asking for her written account of what happened, but my daughter definitely wants to move forward by trying to get switched into another class.
It's going to be a long three years for her in middle school if every issue with a teacher is handled by a request to change teachers.
This has already been explained as a violation of federal law. Your wants do not over ride federal law.
Wait, so you think the teacher in the example given is hallucinating?
This is exactly why students this age are not typically in these meeting. Parents watch law and order and suddenly think they get to play lawyer.
Because a teacher caught a student cheating they can't be "object"-ive? Why do you think that?
The vast majority, nearly 86% of students admit to cheating (which btw does include allowing other to copy answers). Teachers know this, if we couldn't be objective after a student cheats and moved them to another class, they would be moving all the students all the time.
You appear to acting out a scenario about your own child rather than the OP. The teacher stated that the OPs daughter cheated by allowing another student to see her test. So the teacher never said the student needed to cheat to pass.
If it wasn't so sad this part would be funny. It is a fairly typical response of parents whose children cheat often to do the above. It also doesn't work. But sure be labeled the parent who threatens a lawyer when their child makes a mistake. The irony is the best course of action based on the scenario OldHag gave is to give your child tools to prevent others from cheating off her paper so this never happens again. OP kids make mistakes, your response to this mistake will make the difference between reinforcing the behavior or changing it.
Thanks for the tip my son had those skills I had him in martial arts at five. He was the Captain of the wrestling team and worked out with the German adult bundesliga (semi pro) wrestling and judo team by age 15. "stop looking at my paper or I will hit you so hard you will have an eidetic memory for the next year; that way you won't have to cheat anymore."
I also taught him not to tolerate bullying from anyone including teachers.
This has already been explained as a violation of federal law. Your wants do not over ride federal law.
Wait, so you think the teacher in the example given is hallucinating?
This is exactly why students this age are not typically in these meeting. Parents watch law and order and suddenly think they get to play lawyer.
Because a teacher caught a student cheating they can't be "object"-ive? Why do you think that?
The vast majority, nearly 86% of students admit to cheating (which btw does include allowing other to copy answers). Teachers know this, if we couldn't be objective after a student cheats and moved them to another class, they would be moving all the students all the time.
You appear to acting out a scenario about your own child rather than the OP. The teacher stated that the OPs daughter cheated by allowing another student to see her test. So the teacher never said the student needed to cheat to pass.
If it wasn't so sad this part would be funny. It is a fairly typical response of parents whose children cheat often to do the above. It also doesn't work. But sure be labeled the parent who threatens a lawyer when their child makes a mistake. The irony is the best course of action based on the scenario OldHag gave is to give your child tools to prevent others from cheating off her paper so this never happens again. OP kids make mistakes, your response to this mistake will make the difference between reinforcing the behavior or changing it.
Why do you automatically assume the teacher is right?
My daughter just got detention today and a "0" because some other girl was trying to copy off her. The teacher accused my daughter of intentional trying to help her. The thing is, my daughter doesn't even know the name of the girl, etc. My daughter is just starting middle school and is taking math at the next grade level (she's probably the youngest person taking 7th-grade math out of ~350-400 students). She's small, and will obviously stick out. Anybody have any suggestions on what to do? Obviously, the age factor, etc. will potentially be problematic in the future.
I'd call the teacher and ask for a meeting about it, and get her side of what happened. Sometimes, kids lie. Not saying your child is...but sometimes the teacher's version and your child's version might be different. Be calm, explain your concern, and see what the teacher has to say.
This was a common teacher tactic when I was in school -- punish the person being cheated off along with the cheater. Didn't matter if you were totally innocent, it was "punish them all and let God sort them out" philosophy combined with "they probably did something they should be punished for anyway so it evens out."
Lord, I hated school.
No S...; It's at best a judgement call and an easy out...for the teacher.
Reminds me of when I beat the crap out of the bully and we both got suspended.
Takes a brain to find a solution.
Let the school know you're watching, and yes, nip this in the bud.
This looks like a very good template to base the conservation on. I have already emailed the teacher asking for her written account of what happened, but my daughter definitely wants to move forward by trying to get switched into another class.
If your daughter didn't do anything wrong, why would she want to move on to another class?
Edited to add, I'm not saying your daughter is guilty of cheating at all.
Last edited by blueherons; 09-21-2017 at 04:10 PM..
I realize you are burdened by nonsensical rules, please don't prejudge what I wouldn't want. I raise my son to take accountability for all of his actions and that includes his test scores is you want to post his scores on the front door of the school and he is ashamed of the results he better study harder next time.
Doesn't matter what you or I think, federal laws will not allow a teacher or other school official to discuss a student with anyone not employed in the district other than the child's parents.
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Originally Posted by Supermex
Can you answer this? Did they miss the same questions?
Sigh....... They usually don't copy the entire test off another student. They may have only copied one answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermex
I realize you want me to take your word for this but I don't think you are sacrosanct or infallible; you do make mistakes right?
Son, don't humiliate yourself and give away your integrity; did you or did you not knowingly allow this kid to copy off of you? N/Y assuming N
Well Mr. educator it seems there are only three possibilities.
My son is a liar.
You are a liar.
You are in error.
Regardless of which is true I don't have any faith that you are capable of being object towards my son after this incident. Therefore we will need to move to a different teacher.
I would have a very hard time not doing a happy dance at this point if I thought you could actually accomplish this. However, no principal I ever worked with would have foisted my new problem family on a different teacher unless I was cursed with an overabundance of them. Sadly, you would remain my burden to bear.
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Originally Posted by Supermex
I would appreciate it if you could proctor my son a different version of the test at your convenience. Y/N
I already explained in an earlier post that when I called the parent I always offered to either give the child a zero or have the child retake the exam after school, and would explain to them that while the choice was up to the parent my preference would be for them to take the exam. Giving a zero defeats my whole purpose in giving exams, I can't assess whether they learned the material if it isn't graded. Contrary to what too many believe the purpose of going to school is not to get grades but to learn. I spent a lot of time creating my tests and every question tested a particular concept. So, I didn't give different versions, nor I didn't dock them any points.
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Originally Posted by Supermex
You see the reality is my son doesn't know this other student and has a documented Stanford Benet V IQ of 138. He doesn't have to cheat to pass your test and he there is no logical reason why he would go against every value our family holds dear and sacrifice his integrity for a stranger.
Good for your son for being so bright. He may not have a reason to cheat but adorable little Caitlin Cheerleader or Bubba the Bruiser might and he is exactly who they want to cheat off. Interestingly enough most really, really bright boys are more susceptible to the charms of cute little Caitlin than physical threats from Badboy Bubba. Your brilliant boy might tell me about Bubba beforehand and let me take care of the issue but not Caitlin.
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Originally Posted by Supermex
Assuming the answer is still N
Well I have tried to be reasonable with you Mr. Educator but for some reason you want to see how far we can push this. I can only assume you aren't a fool and already have your boss the principal in your back pocket. Therefore I will be seeing the superintendent tomorrow; I will mention other concerns as to your teaching (throw dirt here). Ultimately I guess my lawyer Mr. Straihorn will have to handle it after that as I really don't have the time to dedicate to this right now. Should you reconsider you have my email.
You actually haven't been reasonable but okay. Do you really think the superintendent is going to get all bent out of shape over a child who got one zero in a cheating situation? They may pay you lip service but they aren't going to punish the teacher over it. At most, they may try to convince the teacher to drop the test. You may not be aware of it but in about half the states it is against the law for a school administrator to force a teacher to change a grade or to take disciplinary action over a student's grade unless it is a pervasive pattern.
No lawyer would take you case. Neither you or child have suffered real damages. A zero in elementary or middle school is of no consequence.
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Originally Posted by Supermex
I strongly caution you not to take retaliatory action against my son based on our differences.
I have never felt the desire to retaliate against the child of a whack-a-doodle or over-the-top reactionary parent, mostly I just felt sorry for them. I have had kids apologize to me for their parent's behavior before, it broke my heart.
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You know, even in a setting where students are at desks pretty close together, it's hard to see over to the next desk without a little help.
Really? When I was in school you couldn't look around without seeing other's papers. It would be very easy to read the kids around you without even trying if you wanted to. Remember those little one piece elementary desks? They were in neat rows, front of one touching the back of the one in front of it (so you couldn't lean back) and the side to side aisle spacing equal to the width of the desktop. I could easily sit in my desk and touch the students on all four sides if I wanted.
The teacher's typical expectation in elementary was that your left arm was curled up the side and over the top of your paper; right arm on the other side across the paper holding the pencil (wow unto those left handers in the room; some teachers would take the pencil out of the left hand and put it in the right, but that's another story). Head and upper body were supposed to be bent over covering the paper. Basically an almost impossible and very uncomfortable position for very long. Fortunately by junior high we got bigger desks spaced out more and they were less in a panic about cheating.
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Masters Degree and still they can't figure it out
