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What is always, always, ignored in these discussions is that 1/2 of the school population has a below average IQ (and yeah, I know there's "controversy" about IQ).
So many of you talk about analysis and making connections and the smart kids usually do get it. I went to a very rural school in NW PA and didn't feel "overwhelmed" by college. In fact, my GPA went up a full QP from high school. Of course, that's when college was truly reserved for the "smart" kids and before, look in the mirror, parents demanded schools prepare all their kids for college. That's where that comes from, parents and policy makers. Not classroom teachers.
The slower kids struggle to get the same answer twice in a row when adding 2+2 and spelling their names correctly. Hell, some systems have vast majorities of kids starting school in Kindergarten who don't even know their real names.
You rail against standardized tests yet look in the mirror again to see who it was that demanded those tests and that teaching and learning and, by extension, school rankings be tied to the results on those tests.
I agree completely with this comment, and looking back, most of what you've posted in this thread. My apologies, my comments will be adjusted as such.
At least you (Americans) could choose some classes in colledge. Millions of peopse wont do that. I was teaching tonns of trash while studiyng. I`d better taught foreighn languages. Nevetheless i agree with mention that the more you learn the better mind you have. Now i work as a deputy head and haven`t use almost anything i learnt in college.
The problem is, the EDU cheerleaders want people to not understand debt, so that people keep taking out student loans for useless degrees, so that colleges can keep overcharging tuition, overpaying employees. Plus, it creates a generation of doormats that are completely beholden to their employers so that they can pay off their student loan debt. Certain posters hate me, because I expose the truth about education.
Also, even if one argues that elementary school reading is about learning to love reading, while middle and high school literature is to teach us about certain books, whether we like them or not, don't people realize that forcing people to read books that they aren't interested in and on somebody else's terms is going to ruin that love of reading, and instead teach a hatred toward reading?
Who are these EDU cheerleaders? Why focus on education debt? What about homes and vehicles? What about vehicle leasing, don't you have an issue with that? It has nothing to do with your so called "EDU cheerleaders." It seems that banks and leasing companies have more of a vested interest in people not understanding debt and financing.
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Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
That was exactly the experience that I had in school. A lot of ScanTron tests that were written decades ago and were never updated. It would still somehow take teachers weeks to grade them.
This is a complete exaggeration. Most teachers are giving tests provided by the book publishers. Few school districts are using books that are more than 10-12 years old because the books have fallen apart by then, even if they are rarely used by students.
Many districts have requirements that teachers most have at least one graded activity per week. From my experiences as a long term sub, students were looking for their grades to be posted in less than 24 hours. Parents were also checking and I would often get an e-mail from parents minutes after posting grades.
High school teachers, guidance counselors, administrators, and basically everybody employed by a college. When I was in high school, we were told that, living in the school district that we were in, it meant that our parents made too much money to get any need-based financial aid, but that they won't be able to afford an expensive college. We were told to go to the most expensive college that we could get into. We were told that no college that offered academic scholarships was worth attending. So, we were told to take out student loans, and that they are basically free money.
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Why focus on education debt? What about homes and vehicles? What about vehicle leasing, don't you have an issue with that?
Student loan debt is the type of debt most relevant to high school students who are starting college. And, in any case, if they taught about other types of debt, high school students would just apply that knowledge to student loan debt, and instead choose more affordable colleges, or other life options.
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It has nothing to do with your so called "EDU cheerleaders." It seems that banks and leasing companies have more of a vested interest in people not understanding debt and financing.
Then why did high school guidance counselors, teachers, and administrators give the "advice" that they gave?
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This is a complete exaggeration. Most teachers are giving tests provided by the book publishers. Few school districts are using books that are more than 10-12 years old because the books have fallen apart by then, even if they are rarely used by students.
I had at least one teacher (AP Bio) who gave us tests provided by the book publisher from an old edition of the textbook, not the version that we were using! When we eventually figured it out, and we figured out that he had a few copies of that old edition in his classroom, we would start passing them around and reading them, rather than listening to his lectures, knowing that the exams would be based on that old version of the book, and not based on his lectures or the current edition of the textbook that we were actually using.
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Many districts have requirements that teachers most have at least one graded activity per week. From my experiences as a long term sub, students were looking for their grades to be posted in less than 24 hours. Parents were also checking and I would often get an e-mail from parents minutes after posting grades.
Maybe that's a new thing. When I was in school, grades weren't "posted", and parents didn't e-mail teachers.
High school teachers, guidance counselors, administrators, and basically everybody employed by a college. When I was in high school, we were told that, living in the school district that we were in, it meant that our parents made too much money to get any need-based financial aid, but that they won't be able to afford an expensive college. We were told to go to the most expensive college that we could get into. We were told that no college that offered academic scholarships was worth attending. So, we were told to take out student loans, and that they are basically free money.
So everyone living in your school district made too much money to get financial aid? Ridiculous! Every area has people who are unemployed, divorced, etc. They qualify for financial aid. You expect someone to believe that, "We were told to go to the most expensive college that we could get into." This did not happen. It doesn't make any sense.
When I graduated from high school in 1973, nobody was telling my class that student loans were basically free money. Your comments are just not believable.
Then why did high school guidance counselors, teachers, and administrators give the "advice" that they gave?
I'm sure they didn't. I doubt any teacher or administrator gave advice about school loans.
I had at least one teacher (AP Bio) who gave us tests provided by the book publisher from an old edition of the textbook, not the version that we were using! When we eventually figured it out, and we figured out that he had a few copies of that old edition in his classroom, we would start passing them around and reading them, rather than listening to his lectures, knowing that the exams would be based on that old version of the book, and not based on his lectures or the current edition of the textbook that we were actually using.
I believe this. This isn't what you described in your previous post.
Maybe that's a new thing. When I was in school, grades weren't "posted", and parents didn't e-mail teachers.
So it has been awhile since you were in school. Schools have been using online gradebooks for over 20 years.
Not only do you call me a liar with no basis, but you also made your posts very difficult to reply to.
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So everyone living in your school district made too much money to get financial aid? Ridiculous! Every area has people who are unemployed, divorced, etc. They qualify for financial aid. You expect someone to believe that,
It's what we were told. I agree that it was not likely accurate.
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We were told to go to the most expensive college that we could get into." This did not happen. It doesn't make any sense.
We were most definitely told that. The reason being that high schools are judged based on what colleges students go to, not based on post-college quality of life.
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When I graduated from high school in 1973, nobody was telling my class that student loans were basically free money. Your comments are just not believable.
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I'm sure they didn't. I doubt any teacher or administrator gave advice about school loans.
Why do you say that?
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I believe this. This isn't what you described in your previous post.
Why not?
I should also mention my AP Chemistry teacher. He gave us decades old exams that were on dittos, and, were barely even related to the topics that he was teaching. He was the last teacher in the school still using the ditto machine. When the ditto machine broke, the school said that they cannot replace or repair a functionally obsolete machine that only 1 teacher was still using. He was really angry that they wouldn't fix it for him, even though he was the type who would frequently remind us how individual students are nothing. For the rest of the year, he gave exams from the University of Syracuse, which were also barely related to the topics that he was teaching.
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Originally Posted by villageidiot1
So it has been awhile since you were in school. Schools have been using online gradebooks for over 20 years.
I think your memory is foggy.
I graduated from high school in 1997. I can assure you that teachers were not using online gradebooks then, even if your school was using them at the time.
Not only do you call me a liar with no basis, but you also made your posts very difficult to reply to.
We were most definitely told that. The reason being that high schools are judged based on what colleges students go to, not based on post-college quality of life.
Why do you say that?
Why not?
I should also mention my AP Chemistry teacher. He gave us decades old exams that were on dittos, and, were barely even related to the topics that he was teaching. He was the last teacher in the school still using the ditto machine. When the ditto machine broke, the school said that they cannot replace or repair a functionally obsolete machine that only 1 teacher was still using. He was really angry that they wouldn't fix it for him, even though he was the type who would frequently remind us how individual students are nothing. For the rest of the year, he gave exams from the University of Syracuse, which were also barely related to the topics that he was teaching.
I graduated from high school in 1997. I can assure you that teachers were not using online gradebooks then, even if your school was using them at the time.
Who is judging a high school based on what colleges students go to? This may apply to private schools but show me where a public school is being judged on where students go to college. Around here, they publish statistics on what graduates are planning to do after graduation. The categories are 4-year colleges, 2-year colleges and trade schools, military, seeking employment, and other.
I stated that I doubt any teacher or administrator gave advice about school loans. I was referring to all the comments below. I'm quite confident saying that anyone with any common sense did not make these statements.
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We were told to go to the most expensive college that we could get into. We were told that no college that offered academic scholarships was worth attending. So, we were told to take out student loans, and that they are basically free money.
You stated that:
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A lot of ScanTron tests that were written decades ago and were never updated. It would still somehow take teachers weeks to grade them.
I said I doubted they were written decades ago. You responded about test from a previous edition of the AP textbook. I said this is believable and it doesn't surprise me that some teachers are lazy and do this. I've heard students say they have found answers to teacher's tests and assignments online.
Online attendance and gradebooks probably became common shortly after you graduated. I've never encountered a school district that does not use them.
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