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Old 10-17-2022, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,831 posts, read 24,347,720 times
Reputation: 32959

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Then why is it so hard to fire a teacher with tenure? Why the rubber rooms at all? Just fire them.

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-lear...achers/2016/12
I don't think it is hard if it's deserved and you have your ducks in a row.
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Old 10-17-2022, 06:36 PM
 
12,850 posts, read 9,064,235 times
Reputation: 34940
It makes me sad to see teacher espousing the "I don't get paid enough to care" mindset. Why then do you expect students who don't get paid anything to care? The mindset is a cancer that will destroy and organization. Don't spread that cancer to our kids.

Why would the person making burgers who doesn't care at $9 bucks an hour care at $15? Fact is, you can never be paid enough to care. You can always find a reason to justify it.

Caring, giving a damn, comes from within. Some people run in when others run out. They don't run in because of how much they're paid.
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Old 10-17-2022, 08:19 PM
 
3,594 posts, read 1,795,118 times
Reputation: 4726
What bothers me most is the attitude of today’s urban teachers. They don’t seem to like the country very much. Well that’s a big problem when you’re tasked with preparing these kids for life in this country. If the country is a horrible place with no opportunity and racism everywhere than why even try? We see this attitude in the military enlistment decline. They should be highlighting the benefits of living here.
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Old 10-18-2022, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,069 posts, read 7,243,961 times
Reputation: 17146
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
It makes me sad to see teacher espousing the "I don't get paid enough to care" mindset. Why then do you expect students who don't get paid anything to care? The mindset is a cancer that will destroy and organization. Don't spread that cancer to our kids.

Why would the person making burgers who doesn't care at $9 bucks an hour care at $15? Fact is, you can never be paid enough to care. You can always find a reason to justify it.

Caring, giving a damn, comes from within. Some people run in when others run out. They don't run in because of how much they're paid.
Care yes.

Put in 60+ hours a week for a job that'll never pay enough to afford a house? No. Going to put what's needed only, so we can get to our 2nd jobs on time.
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Old 10-18-2022, 03:29 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,030 posts, read 44,853,831 times
Reputation: 13715
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I don't think it is hard if it's deserved and you have your ducks in a row.
Read the study referred to in the link I posted. It says the exact opposite.
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Old 10-18-2022, 06:19 AM
 
899 posts, read 671,964 times
Reputation: 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
It makes me sad to see teacher espousing the "I don't get paid enough to care" mindset. Why then do you expect students who don't get paid anything to care? The mindset is a cancer that will destroy and organization. Don't spread that cancer to our kids.

Why would the person making burgers who doesn't care at $9 bucks an hour care at $15? Fact is, you can never be paid enough to care. You can always find a reason to justify it.

Caring, giving a damn, comes from within. Some people run in when others run out. They don't run in because of how much they're paid.
The teachers I know might say we don't get paid enough---not in cash, but in achieving our goals. People don't respect us and don't pay us and I would add, for men teaching is a form of repellent when it comes to attracting women in our personal lives. If we could say, "But I taught my students and I'm proud of that," it would be worth it.

One colleague once remarked to me, "The district tells us to run, but they tie our shoelaces together." So many are willing to forego the money or respect but to then be sabotaged or undermined and not be able to succeed?

One example: the school had decided to go with Blackboard (https://www.blackboard.com/) so teachers were uploading a lot of materials in there. Then the school decided to stop. Hours and hours of teacher work were just flushed down the toilet.

Another example: I heard complaints about capricious changes. You teach biology one year, then chemistry the next, then biology again, then physics...if this were baseball, you're a pitcher, no an outfielder, wait, we can put you at shortstop, hold on we need a catcher. You can see that while the player is athletic and can do many things, you're not going to get the optimal results from moving people around too much.

I notice how things changed during various eras. When I arrived (teacher shortage) they were super sweet to me. When money got tight, they were like "What have you done for me lately?" Now that there's a shortage teachers are heroes or something. It may all change again tomorrow because it's based on supply and demand.

A couple of rookie teachers asked me once if I had any advice.

1) Always appear to know what's going on. They barrage us with so many emails and it's easy to miss something but act like you're on top of everything. Don't give them any reason to scrutinize you more than anyone else. "I'm doing great...as far as you know."

2) Always appear to care. We all know a lot of things are beyond our control and learning's important, but you're going to sit down with some folks who clearly let their kids run the house, are unwilling to discipline them, or whatever. You may realize that all the caring in the world from you isn't going to change a thing.
Never make it look like you've stopped caring (or trying), though.

Bonus suggestion I came up with later: carry a clipboard. People think you're really serious when they see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
What bothers me most is the attitude of today’s urban teachers. They don’t seem to like the country very much. Well that’s a big problem when you’re tasked with preparing these kids for life in this country. If the country is a horrible place with no opportunity and racism everywhere than why even try? We see this attitude in the military enlistment decline. They should be highlighting the benefits of living here.
What's wrong with fixing the country? Peaceful protest and working to build a better country seem legitimate and patriotic to me. Pretending everybody's enjoying the high life doesn't work.
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Old 10-18-2022, 07:46 AM
 
4,386 posts, read 4,239,114 times
Reputation: 5874
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILTXwhatnext View Post
The teachers I know might say we don't get paid enough---not in cash, but in achieving our goals. People don't respect us and don't pay us and I would add, for men teaching is a form of repellent when it comes to attracting women in our personal lives. If we could say, "But I taught my students and I'm proud of that," it would be worth it.

One colleague once remarked to me, "The district tells us to run, but they tie our shoelaces together." So many are willing to forego the money or respect but to then be sabotaged or undermined and not be able to succeed?

One example: the school had decided to go with Blackboard (https://www.blackboard.com/) so teachers were uploading a lot of materials in there. Then the school decided to stop. Hours and hours of teacher work were just flushed down the toilet.

Another example: I heard complaints about capricious changes. You teach biology one year, then chemistry the next, then biology again, then physics...if this were baseball, you're a pitcher, no an outfielder, wait, we can put you at shortstop, hold on we need a catcher. You can see that while the player is athletic and can do many things, you're not going to get the optimal results from moving people around too much.

I notice how things changed during various eras. When I arrived (teacher shortage) they were super sweet to me. When money got tight, they were like "What have you done for me lately?" Now that there's a shortage teachers are heroes or something. It may all change again tomorrow because it's based on supply and demand.

A couple of rookie teachers asked me once if I had any advice.

1) Always appear to know what's going on. They barrage us with so many emails and it's easy to miss something but act like you're on top of everything. Don't give them any reason to scrutinize you more than anyone else. "I'm doing great...as far as you know."

2) Always appear to care. We all know a lot of things are beyond our control and learning's important, but you're going to sit down with some folks who clearly let their kids run the house, are unwilling to discipline them, or whatever. You may realize that all the caring in the world from you isn't going to change a thing.
Never make it look like you've stopped caring (or trying), though.

Bonus suggestion I came up with later: carry a clipboard. People think you're really serious when they see it.



What's wrong with fixing the country? Peaceful protest and working to build a better country seem legitimate and patriotic to me. Pretending everybody's enjoying the high life doesn't work.
I'm a compulsive note-taker. I can't tell you the number of administrators who seemed concerned by that. A couple of them would even stand behind me during meetings to see my notes!
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Old 10-18-2022, 07:53 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,124 posts, read 18,281,341 times
Reputation: 34995
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
I'm a compulsive note-taker. I can't tell you the number of administrators who seemed concerned by that. A couple of them would even stand behind me during meetings to see my notes!
Says a lot about the system.

I never experienced that in tech and we all took notes at almost every meeting.
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Old 10-18-2022, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,831 posts, read 24,347,720 times
Reputation: 32959
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Read the study referred to in the link I posted. It says the exact opposite.
I can only tell you what I experienced. We got rid of a drama teacher and a vice-principal, not to mention 'counseling' others out.
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Old 10-18-2022, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,831 posts, read 24,347,720 times
Reputation: 32959
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
I'm a compulsive note-taker. I can't tell you the number of administrators who seemed concerned by that. A couple of them would even stand behind me during meetings to see my notes!
This made me chuckle. One of the pieces of advice I've given people (mostly parents) -- since retiring -- who are trying to deal with a school system (as well as any other business or governmental agency (etc.), is put everything in writing. Don't need to make threats at all. Just put everything in writing. For example: "I wanted to summarize what went on at our meeting last Tuesday...". I am telling you folks, putting things in writing often gets balls rolling (so to speak). Having said that, there may be times when that could work against you (so you have to use good judgement), and you need to keep such 'records' concise and accurate (which some people can't do). But under the right circumstances, it works wonders.
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