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i will not respond to the many good side topic issues brought out in this thread.
the topic socialization what is it
its getting along with others.
not an abstract idea at all.
but very difficult for many to do.
Okay, here's what we have thus far summarized in brief:
1. Going out to play with kids
2. To fit in
3. To work in teams
4. To follow instructions but still be creative
5. To listen to authority
6. To look forward to learn
7. To keep their hands to themselves
8. To not miss their parents
9. To ask permission to go to the bathroom
10. To have positive interactions with others
11.To know when to be quiet and work
12. To read the nonverbal behaviors of others
13. To know when to follow or defy directions
14. To know when to debate or let the other person have the last word
15. To understand others have different personalities and views
16. To observe the conventions of etiquette
I notice some trends or groupings. Does anyone else?
Definitely. I do not read 'conformity' into that, however, as some posters seem to, which seems to illustrate for me, that we bring our perceptions with us. Just human nature, and not necessarily good or bad.
To be able to 'socialize' is to be able to work within the confines of a society, isn't it? I've worked with plenty of 'social', that couldn't do the job if their lives depended upon it, and in situations like that, I'd have much preferred the individual who locked himself away in his office, and worked.
We could socialize all we wanted later.
i will not respond to the many good side topic issues brought out in this thread.
the topic socialization what is it
its getting along with others.
not an abstract idea at all.
but very difficult for many to do.
But what do you mean by "getting along"? In what way does one "get along"? How do you tell when someone is generally "getting along" with others as opposed to not getting along with others?
Definitely. I do not read 'conformity' into that, however, as some posters seem to, which seems to illustrate for me, that we bring our perceptions with us. Just human nature, and not necessarily good or bad.
To be able to 'socialize' is to be able to work within the confines of a society, isn't it? I've worked with plenty of 'social', that couldn't do the job if their lives depended upon it, and in situations like that, I'd have much preferred the individual who locked himself away in his office, and worked.
We could socialize all we wanted later.
It's interesting that you use this word to describe society.
Definitely. I do not read 'conformity' into that, however, as some posters seem to, which seems to illustrate for me, that we bring our perceptions with us. Just human nature, and not necessarily good or bad.
I noticed that there seemed to be an emphasis on surrendering the will of the individual to the will of others, either to one's peers or to authority figures. I'm bolding all that I felt fit this pattern -- please feel free to dispute.
1. Going out to play with kids
2. To fit in 3. To work in teams 4. To follow instructions but still be creative 5. To listen to authority
6. To look forward to learn 7. To keep their hands to themselves
8. To not miss their parents 9. To ask permission to go to the bathroom
10. To have positive interactions with others 11.To know when to be quiet and work
12. To read the nonverbal behaviors of others 13. To know when to follow or defy directions
14. To know when to debate or let the other person have the last word 15. To understand others have different personalities and views
16. To observe the conventions of etiquette
I noticed that there seemed to be an emphasis on surrendering the will of the individual to the will of others, either to one's peers or to authority figures. I'm bolding all that I felt fit this pattern -- please feel free to dispute.
1. Going out to play with kids
2. To fit in 3. To work in teams 4. To follow instructions but still be creative 5. To listen to authority
6. To look forward to learn 7. To keep their hands to themselves
8. To not miss their parents 9. To ask permission to go to the bathroom
10. To have positive interactions with others 11.To know when to be quiet and work
12. To read the nonverbal behaviors of others 13. To know when to follow or defy directions
14. To know when to debate or let the other person have the last word 15. To understand others have different personalities and views
16. To observe the conventions of etiquette
I think that socialization can be all of these things, but I don't see it as conformity only, or surrendering the will of the individual absolutely. To me they are all elements of functioning in a community of different types of people. Knowing when to be individual, and when to go along with the majority. And of course, no on learns these lessons at once. It takes years. Even as adults we all probably have our strengths and weaknesses in different areas.
I think the ones that were not bolded in the pp are just as important, and don't have much to do with with the pattern perceived by the poster and others.
I agree with maestramommy, well put. Who wants their child to be a quiet robot that does not think for themselves? For those of us that were brought up in the "question authority" era, following instructions without questioning or thinking gives us the willies.
I think that in general, we're more "socialized" and accepting of authority than we care to admit. People such as teachers and doctors are seen as authority figures, even to adults. New parents will argue over what "my doctor says...." "My doctor says to let the baby cry it out." "My doctor says he'll sleep through the night when he's ready." "My doctor says to give my 2 month old rice cereal in his bottle to help him sleep." "My doctor says breastmilk only for the first 6 months."
This continues as the children grow: "My doctor says little Billy has ADHD and needs medication." "My doctor says to try a gluten free diet to see if that helps." And of course with teachers as well: "Johnny's teacher says that phonics is the way to go to teach him to read!" "Suzie's teacher has had great success with drilling lots of sight-words before introducing phonics." "Marcie's teacher wants all of her students reading before they enter the first grade." "Joey's teacher says that kids pick up reading much better if they wait until they're 6 to start."
As children grow, their peers are their authorities in some ways: "Mom, EVERYONE else is going, why can't I??" "But NO ONE else has to buy their clothes at Marshalls, EVERYONE gets their things at The Gap!"
Then as adults, we struggle to keep up with the Joneses, coveting the jobs and prestige and cars and houses and landscaping and fashion sense that other adults have. People who work as janitors or waitresses are simply not accepted into the social circles of doctors and lawyers, and are seen as "rough around the edges." People who question authority are seen as threats (you should see the looks I sometimes get when I explain that we homeschool or *gasp* don't vaccinate). Teachers say that kids belong in school (for proper socialization, and because what parent could possibly have the knowledge to teach their own children?), and doctors (and government officials) say that kids must be vaccinated. Even people who buck the trend of conforming with their peers are subtly or not-so-subtly looked down upon: if you saw a 4-year-old boy with wavy hair cascading down his back, what would be your immediate mental reaction? If a woman wore capris, socks, and high heels, would you not think there was something wrong with her, even momentarily? When somebody drives an old rusted jalopy, what do you assume about them? Do you roll your eyes a bit when someone starts spouting off about the chemicals in our food and water, and how the government wants them there? We are "socialized" to have these thoughts... small children, without the benefit of "socialization" by their parents, teachers, and peers have no such thoughts!
People are expected to conform. I'm not saying it's a terrible thing... I do'nt want my next door neighbor cultivating 2-foot-high grass anymore than you do, I don't want to share an elevator with someone who has not showered in a week, and I find people who speak very loudly or swear in public exceptionally annoying. A good rule of thumb to teach our kids would be "do what you like as long as you're not bothering someone else," but people are bothered by all sorts of things..... long hair on young boys, odd-looking outfits, conspiracy theorists.
It's a fine line, to be sure. In my opinion, "socialization" has gone too far, and even when we think we're free-thinkers, we're often just regurgitating what has been taught to us, overtly or subconciously.
I think that socialization can be all of these things, but I don't see it as conformity only, or surrendering the will of the individual absolutely. To me they are all elements of functioning in a community of different types of people. Knowing when to be individual, and when to go along with the majority. And of course, no on learns these lessons at once. It takes years. Even as adults we all probably have our strengths and weaknesses in different areas.
I think the ones that were not bolded in the pp are just as important, and don't have much to do with with the pattern perceived by the poster and others.
I would agree, and it would be misrepresentational to say that all of the definition of "socialization" can be contained in the word "obedience," but I was surprised to which obedience is possibly the single largest grouping I could perceive. To me, at least from the definitions generated here, socialization looks like 50% obedience, 50% "other," roughly speaking.
I noticed that there seemed to be an emphasis on surrendering the will of the individual to the will of others, either to one's peers or to authority figures. I'm bolding all that I felt fit this pattern -- please feel free to dispute.
1. Going out to play with kids
2. To fit in 3. To work in teams 4. To follow instructions but still be creative 5. To listen to authority
6. To look forward to learn 7. To keep their hands to themselves
8. To not miss their parents 9. To ask permission to go to the bathroom
10. To have positive interactions with others 11.To know when to be quiet and work
12. To read the nonverbal behaviors of others 13. To know when to follow or defy directions
14. To know when to debate or let the other person have the last word 15. To understand others have different personalities and views
16. To observe the conventions of etiquette
I don't see that as the surrendering of one's will, but more of contributing to a group for the common good of the whole. Some of these have to do with simple manners -- keeping one's hands to oneself -- while others have to do with being a part of a whole as compared to functioning as an individual unit.
Social skills make us 'civilized,' don't they? It is interesting that I used the word 'confines' in reference to society, isn't it? But I do see society as having confines. My rights as an individual stop where yours, as an individual, begin. I guess that would include the plural 'you' as well, unless there is good reason to question the 'you,' as in No. 13 -- knowing when to defy authority.
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