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History does not support your contention. Businesses that did not serve blacks did just fine prior to the Civil Rights Act, and in some cases even after that, including in the north.
Sure there will always be exceptions to the rules but to base something on a handful of examples is reckless.
btw the North is just as racist as the South. The North is worse in that they lie about it.
I wonder why I hear this following statement by minorities many more times than whites. "I'd rather know right away if someone is racist" (I'll complete the thought hoping you'll understand better) "than find out down the line I won't be given raises or be promoted after my time and money is invested".
I'm racist but I'll do just as good a job for you as I would people of my own race. riiiiiight
This what happens too often when using force. people think "why does government give xxxx priority over me. I do not like xxxx." Using force pushes people away, not together. THAT is what history teaches us.
You have to realize we are not dealing with a nation of katianas. People don't act like you would, but you cannot take away their rights and use force to make them do the right thing. People don't learn that way. To often they react and push back.
At the point that I'm at, I can't just move to another state. It takes alot of money to relocate to another state. The way I look at things, is also from a historical perspective. The way you are looking at it, it is assuming that all people are inherently good and will do the right thing. I tend to think otherwise.
You do have to consider though - if you live in an area that is racist enough to let that kind of **** stand, shopping is probably the least of your problems when it comes to racism.
But how does that help anyone progress? This is all a throwback to Jim Crow. This is exactly what I'm trying to prevent.
Help people progress? It's someone's business choice. If someone puts up a silly no asians sign and the store is actually near a very highly populate asian neighborhood.. this isn't about progression this is stupid. You wouldn't have any business. Thus, your business failed BECAUSE of a stupid business move. Business' should succeed and fail based on how the owner runs and operates it. Nobody, IMO, has rights to go into someone's store.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden
A couple of problems.
1. The idea that a business has "rights" is still in debate. It closely relates to corporate personhood. Humans have a right to discriminate, being sovereign individuals. Business are legal constructs. What rights, outside of those given by a governing body, do they have?
2. "The Market" is a euphemism for human greed. Discrimination was atrocious in the sixties and before the bill was signed. The law specifically stated that business which serve "to the public" could not discriminate. It's not just about a business that say, creates chairs, but business that accommodate the public--restaurants, hospitality, etc. There is a stark difference between the two.
This isn't 1935 either. Our cultural viewpoints have shifted rapidly since even this law was enacted. Rapidly, greatly, but not completely. You can't view this law from a revisionist viewpoint.
If my sandwich shop said "No fatties, please".. what right does anyone have to eat at my shop? Once again, the market will either ignore it or support it. If the area I am opening up my shop is in a very healthy, very low % of obsese people, and those people don't want to come in and eat around very fat people..then guess what? My business just might be a success. If they are offended, I will lose customers and possibly my business. Nowhere in our constitution does it state "Every America has the right to be in other people's shops".
But I guess since I said "Fats" it's not as powerful as saying "Black". It's NOT just about black people!! They are NOT the only ones who are discriminated against despite all what they + extreme liberals claim. The same business model can be said "NO WHITE CHRISTIANS". "NO ITALIANS" "NO JEWS" "NO TALL PEOPLE".. etc ETC etc!!
This whole thing isn't even about a "No __" sign. Business owners should have the freedom to start and run a business as they please. Nobody else has the right to dictate to them how to run it and who/what should be included. The market should decide.
No one is buying them $12 sandwiches that cost $1.75 to make? Prices need to come down in order to keep a business. If people are paying those prices...well, congrats!
We should dictate how their business is run with our wallets and not our government. IMO, $12 is a lot for a sandwich.. lol There are people who will think it's wrong for them to sell a sandwich at that price. Then we'll have laws being passed that sandwiches can only be sold for 50% more than what they are worth.
Blah, I don't know anymore. I guess I don't have a chip on my shoulder and I could care less about how others run a business.
It's not about a business having rights. It's about the individual having rights. If I am a plumber who owns the business, be it just me or I have 100 people working for me, and don't want to work for a certain segment of society that's my choice. I don't loose my rights because I join a company.
You have the freedom of association (or lack of), but if you choose to run a business, you abide by the regulations and freedoms granted by the State. The business, whether you own it or are employed by it, does not have the freedom of association. That's the difference. If you don't want to work for someone, you risk termination or legal fines for discrimination. There is a difference here between a plumber and those accommodating the public, like restaurants, hotels, etc.
Quote:
Government does not owns it's citizens and should not be able to use force to make them do work for others.
No one is forcing you to work for others. You have the freedom of association. The business does not, and these laws specifically refer to public accommodations.
Quote:
My work is my property.
Explain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by h0tmess
Help people progress? It's someone's business choice. If someone puts up a silly no asians sign and the store is actually near a very highly populate asian neighborhood.. this isn't about progression this is stupid. You wouldn't have any business. Thus, your business failed BECAUSE of a stupid business move. Business' should succeed and fail based on how the owner runs and operates it. Nobody, IMO, has rights to go into someone's store.
If my sandwich shop said "No fatties, please".. what right does anyone have to eat at my shop? Once again, the market will either ignore it or support it. If the area I am opening up my shop is in a very healthy, very low % of obsese people, and those people don't want to come in and eat around very fat people..then guess what? My business just might be a success. If they are offended, I will lose customers and possibly my business. Nowhere in our constitution does it state "Every America has the right to be in other people's shops".
But I guess since I said "Fats" it's not as powerful as saying "Black". It's NOT just about black people!! They are NOT the only ones who are discriminated against despite all what they + extreme liberals claim. The same business model can be said "NO WHITE CHRISTIANS". "NO ITALIANS" "NO JEWS" "NO TALL PEOPLE".. etc ETC etc!!
This whole thing isn't even about a "No __" sign. Business owners should have the freedom to start and run a business as they please. Nobody else has the right to dictate to them how to run it and who/what should be included. The market should decide.
Your business isn't a person and has no rights. If one wishes to own and operate a business, it has to agree to the terms and laws set fourth by the presiding government.
Quite frankly, Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann's "States Rights" and "Taking our country back" mantras scare me more as a black person than Ron Paul's concerns over protecting property rights.
Quite frankly, Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann's "States Rights" and "Taking our country back" mantras scare me more as a black person than Ron Paul's concerns over protecting property rights.
I can understand that. Whenever I think of states' rights, I think about how much it relates to issues of race. Reagan went to the Neshoba County State Fair in Mississippi, the county where Mickey Schwerner, James Chaney, and Andrew Goodman were murdered for being part of the Freedom Riders. He said that he supported states' rights. Why would he pick that place? He also felt that civil rights were a "local issue" and didn't support the Civil Rights Act. I say if a person is being denied the right to vote, then it is a federal issue. He also said that the Civil Rights Act was a humiliation to the South. I can understand why you would be scared of "states' rights". As an African-American, I get very skeptical as well.
Sure there will always be exceptions to the rules but to base something on a handful of examples is reckless.
btw the North is just as racist as the South. The North is worse in that they lie about it.
I wonder why I hear this following statement by minorities many more times than whites. "I'd rather know right away if someone is racist" (I'll complete the thought hoping you'll understand better) "than find out down the line I won't be given raises or be promoted after my time and money is invested".
I'm racist but I'll do just as good a job for you as I would people of my own race. riiiiiight
This what happens too often when using force. people think "why does government give xxxx priority over me. I do not like xxxx." Using force pushes people away, not together. THAT is what history teaches us.
You have to realize we are not dealing with a nation of katianas. People don't act like you would, but you cannot take away their rights and use force to make them do the right thing. People don't learn that way. To often they react and push back.
I'd like to see an actual quote by someone, rather than a bunch of RWs telling us that's how blacks think. If I were black, I'd want to be able to shop in any store that carried what I wanted/needed. I wouldn't want to have to go to the next town, or the next one after that, or after that, to buy basic goods.
I'd like to see an actual quote by someone, rather than a bunch of RWs telling us that's how blacks think. If I were black, I'd want to be able to shop in any store that carried what I wanted/needed. I wouldn't want to have to go to the next town, or the next one after that, or after that, to buy basic goods.
No one is telling you "how blacks think". Silly to mention that.
It's not about what just blacks think. So blacks think different than other people? Closet racism?
People don't like to be strung along not matter what their race is.
My reference was not about walking into a store and plucking something off the shelf. I was obviously speaking of someone doing actual work.
Simple question:
Do you want to find out after working 10 years you aren't getting promoted because someone is racist or do you want to find out right away?
rhetorical, the answer is obvious
No one is telling you "how blacks think". Silly to mention that.
It's not about what just blacks think. So blacks think different than other people? Closet racism?
People don't like to be strung along not matter what their race is.
My reference was not about walking into a store and plucking something off the shelf. I was obviously speaking of someone doing actual work.
Simple question:
Do you want to find out after working 10 years you aren't getting promoted because someone is racist or do you want to find out right away?
rhetorical, the answer is obvious
Nice play of race card.
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So blacks think different than other people? Closet racism?
