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Old 10-22-2011, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 9,817,449 times
Reputation: 4243

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
We know that's the right-wing's talking point. It's just a false narrative.

Anyone that thinks the auto bailouts were a failure is hopelessly partisan. Those bailouts (initially instituted by Bush) saved the U.S. auto industry, millions of jobs and lots of government unemployment benefits.

The recovery stimulus package, such as it was to undo a 6% drop in a $14 trillion economy, consisted of $300 billion in tax-cuts and $500 billion in spending -- spread over two years. Interestingly, if you say "it didn't work," you are defying the mainstay of right-wing thinking, that tax-cuts always help the economy. You can't have it both ways. Either the stimulus worked or tax-cuts don't work.
The only real tax cuts from this administration are the extension of Bush's. Obama puts thru a tax increase, then when he says he won't implement them, he calls that a tax cut. He plays games with numbers. Most of the jobs he claims are to public unions or to the states with money they will be forced to pay back. The latest is money to the states for police and teachers for one year - then the states will be forced to lay off or continue this added expense.
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Old 10-22-2011, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,534,071 times
Reputation: 5606
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
The only real tax cuts from this administration are the extension of Bush's. Obama puts thru a tax increase, then when he says he won't implement them, he calls that a tax cut. He plays games with numbers. Most of the jobs he claims are to public unions or to the states with money they will be forced to pay back. The latest is money to the states for police and teachers for one year - then the states will be forced to lay off or continue this added expense.
It's disturbing that you (and others) are victims of such propaganda. Not only did Obama not raise taxes, they were cut on 95% of families -- as confirmed by Politifact.

According to the Washington Monthly,
Quote:
"President Obama proposed and passed one of the largest tax cuts in American history -- $282 billion over two years -- without Republican support."
...
Obama's tax cuts, meanwhile, are short-term refunds paid directly to working and middle class families (some of which Republicans have denounced as "welfare").

As such, GOP lawmakers have rejected one of the largest, if not the largest, tax cut ever proposed by a president -- which just so happens to be targeted at the working and middle class families Obama vowed to look out for.
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Old 10-22-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: SC
9,038 posts, read 14,295,322 times
Reputation: 3493
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
It's disturbing that you (and others) are victims of such propaganda. Not only did Obama not raise taxes, they were cut on 95% of families -- as confirmed by Politifact.

According to the Washington Monthly,

What he raised was the HIDDEN Tax called INFLATION by keeping Ben Bernanke as the Fed Chairman and allowing the expansion of the money supply. What he ALSO did was make all Americans pay for the Bank and other Secret bailouts. He doesn't have to raise income taxes to have dramatically raised everyone's cost of living.
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Old 10-22-2011, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 9,817,449 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
It's disturbing that you (and others) are victims of such propaganda. Not only did Obama not raise taxes, they were cut on 95% of families -- as confirmed by Politifact.

According to the Washington Monthly,
You are talking about the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Which did nothing to boost the economy. It was aimed at payroll taxes and withholding, rebating $13 dollars for individuals and around $70 for families, for 2 years. Large corps were able to transition, while placing an extra burden on small businesses to institute the change. It did zip to help the economy.

meanwhile:

Smart thermostats, smart meters and the smart grid will provide the utility with information and the ability to monitor energy consumption throughout the country. These devices will enable them to regulate your use of electricity and turn it on and off at their discretion. According to SmartGrid.gov, “The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Recovery Act) provided the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) with about $4.5 billion to modernize the electric power grid and to implement Title XIII of the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 (EISA), which focused on the Smart Grid.” This site shows the government’s progress in implementing smart grid technology through the country. The money put into this is staggering! The Solyndra scandal is only the tip of the iceberg of this Administration’s green radicalism.
Implementing “responsible climate change policy” will come at a tremendous cost to the energy consumer and benefit those involved in producing and installing these devices as well as those involved in the carbon emissions permit exchange market.


Smart Meters - YouTube

» Smart Meters: Stimulus-Funded Devices Benefit Green Lobby at Consumers’ Expense - Big Government
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Old 10-22-2011, 01:42 PM
 
5,747 posts, read 4,621,904 times
Reputation: 1860
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
You are talking about the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Which did nothing to boost the economy. It was aimed at payroll taxes and withholding, rebating $13 dollars for individuals and around $70 for families, for 2 years. Large corps were able to transition, while placing an extra burden on small businesses to institute the change. It did zip to help the economy.

meanwhile:

Smart thermostats, smart meters and the smart grid will provide the utility with information and the ability to monitor energy consumption throughout the country. These devices will enable them to regulate your use of electricity and turn it on and off at their discretion. According to SmartGrid.gov, “The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Recovery Act) provided the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) with about $4.5 billion to modernize the electric power grid and to implement Title XIII of the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 (EISA), which focused on the Smart Grid.” This site shows the government’s progress in implementing smart grid technology through the country. The money put into this is staggering! The Solyndra scandal is only the tip of the iceberg of this Administration’s green radicalism.
Implementing “responsible climate change policy” will come at a tremendous cost to the energy consumer and benefit those involved in producing and installing these devices as well as those involved in the carbon emissions permit exchange market.


Smart Meters - YouTube

» Smart Meters: Stimulus-Funded Devices Benefit Green Lobby at Consumers’ Expense - Big Government
They installed mine yesterday:

Funny thing - it says 'To figure out your total kWh enegy usage for a given time, simply subtract an earlier reading [as you scroll through the different screens] from your current reading.' It should be able to do that automatically - if it was really smart.
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Old 10-22-2011, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,534,071 times
Reputation: 5606
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilybh View Post
What he raised was the HIDDEN Tax called INFLATION by keeping Ben Bernanke as the Fed Chairman and allowing the expansion of the money supply. What he ALSO did was make all Americans pay for the Bank and other Secret bailouts. He doesn't have to raise income taxes to have dramatically raised everyone's cost of living.
I didn't realize Obama invented inflation.

BTW, do you realize that regardless of the right-wing whining about Ben Bernanke, inflation has been around 2%?

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Old 10-22-2011, 03:05 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,389,148 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
I didn't realize Obama invented inflation.

BTW, do you realize that regardless of the right-wing whining about Ben Bernanke, inflation has been around 2%?
I wonder if you will still be touting these statistics when the dollar ceases to be the worlds reserve currency ... ?

Whatever the statistics you are posting say, it doesn't change the fact that we are still mounting debt on top of debt. Its just a matter of time and people like you, just like Greenspan in 2008, will be eating your words.

The fact is that the Fed. is a counterfeiting criminal organization of international bankers who create money out of thin air and lend it to the government at interest ... Something which the treasury should be doing according to the constitution.

Things are a lot worse than many people realize, and a person must be delusional if they believe that America can continue along the same course with the same economic and foreign policies and not come to a most catastrophic end.
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Old 10-22-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 9,817,449 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I wonder if you will still be touting these statistics when the dollar ceases to be the worlds reserve currency ... ?

Whatever the statistics you are posting say, it doesn't change the fact that we are still mounting debt on top of debt. Its just a matter of time and people like you, just like Greenspan in 2008, will be eating your words.

The fact is that the Fed. is a counterfeiting criminal organization of international bankers who create money out of thin air and lend it to the government at interest ... Something which the treasury should be doing according to the constitution.

Things are a lot worse than many people realize, and a person must be delusional if they believe that America can continue along the same course with the same economic and foreign policies and not come to a most catastrophic end.
The plan is for China to replace the U.S. as the leading nation of the World economically and militarily. We can look forward to electricity for a few hours a day, just like the Iraqis.
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Old 10-22-2011, 04:08 PM
 
5,747 posts, read 4,621,904 times
Reputation: 1860
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
I didn't realize Obama invented inflation.

BTW, do you realize that regardless of the right-wing whining about Ben Bernanke, inflation has been around 2%?
Since you like stats so much. Alternate Inflation Charts

Consumer Price Index

And some interesting articles: The Free Market: What's Wrong with the CPI?

Response to BLS Article on CPI Misconceptions

Inflation is a monetary issue not so much a price issue.
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Old 10-22-2011, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,534,071 times
Reputation: 5606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I wonder if you will still be touting these statistics when the dollar ceases to be the worlds reserve currency ... ?

Whatever the statistics you are posting say, it doesn't change the fact that we are still mounting debt on top of debt.
Well, since investors seem to have no worry investing in U.S. bonds, as evident that U.S. 10-yr Treasures are at their lowest rates ever, I'm not losing sleep over the dollar.

The problem the U.S. has is unemployment, not debt and slashing government spending isn't going to lower the unemployment rate. It will make it worse.

Quote:
Way Off Base

I see some commenters reacting to the failure of major inflation to break out by insisting that inflation is defined as an increase in the monetary base — that is, the bank reserves plus currency that are what increases when the Fed “prints money”. As it happens, that’s wrong: very old dictionaries defined inflation as a rise in money and/or credit, but the modern usage is, of course, a rise in prices.

But that’s really a side issue. Nobody would care about the size of the monetary base except for the belief that increasing the base leads to a rise in prices. That’s not a question of definitions, it’s a question of your model of the economy. The underlying belief of all the people accusing Ben Bernanke of doing something dastardly is that “printing money” has caused or will cause high inflation in the ordinary sense.

The thing is, of course, that the past three years — the post-Lehman era during which the Fed presided over a tripling of the monetary base — have been an excellent test of that model, which has failed with flying colors. Here are the data — I’ve included commodity prices (IMF index) as well as consumer prices for the people who believe that the BLS is hiding true inflation (which it isn’t):

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