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Old 05-08-2012, 06:10 PM
 
3,349 posts, read 2,647,576 times
Reputation: 1700

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moving_pains View Post
Casper, jeez..just trying to educate you is enough to turn my hair grey. :-)

OK, listen, I'll do this in real layman's language. Our country was founded by an act of secession. The reason was that the 13 colonies were fed up of King George III's tyranny, and wanted independence. The Constitution was written to restrict the Federal government from intruding on the liberties of the people. The federal government gets its powers from the states and the states get its powers from We The People. So in the order of importance, it's We > State > Federal.

The Civil War turned this concept on its head where Lincoln quashed the Secession (with a capital 'S'). The idea of keeping the Union, come hell or high water, was a concept which took root after that. At the time of the Constitutional Convention, the notion that the colonies are forming this alliance conditionally, and if they disliked the union, they could secede anytime, was widely accepted amongst the Founding Fathers. First step - Nullification, second step - Secession.



Now, examining the idea of secession doesn't equate to calling for it. Just like having the option of a divorce doesn't mean that every couple exercise it. It's a last resort, but a valid legal construct. As much as how the idea is radical in today's world, Dr. Paul is 100% right.

If you think I am lying or misinterpreting anything, please prove me wrong. I am always open to facts. Instead of going off on a tangent as "That crazy Paul wants to secede? Let him just try it!", keep the discussion to the historical aspects of the issue.
The only education Obama voters want is on how to get more freebies... where the nearest Obamaphone pickup is, the nearest needle exchange program is or on how to blame the white man for something new

The education you and the rest of us free thinkers are offering is not along these lines
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:13 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,121 posts, read 33,555,721 times
Reputation: 14136
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Texas would die out without the rest of America, because they would suddenly have 5/62nds the market.


Texas is the only state that would be self sufficient enough to pull it off.

We were our own nation for 10 years and still hold that Constitution.
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,235 posts, read 13,995,874 times
Reputation: 5916
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Why does declaring sovereignty bother you? Why do you think it is tearing apart a nation? Does England threaten you or any other sovereign entity? Are you concerned over money?

If such sovereignty is declared what will you do?
Tearing the nation apart into seperate countries is tearing the Nation apart, you really are not that dense, are you?

Fight You, to the Death.

Enough with this, the Paul supporters here have shown they are no longer worth the effort or time, and nothing more than a total waste of time for anyone that even tries, I wash my hands of all of you. That should make all of you all happy, one less descenting voice, as if that matters.

If you try your little revolution you will find out how Real Patriots deal with Traitors that would attempt to tear this Nation apart.
Good Luck, you are going to need it.
Casper
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:22 AM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,885,972 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Tearing the nation apart into seperate countries is tearing the Nation apart, you really are not that dense, are you?

Fight You, to the Death.

Enough with this, the Paul supporters here have shown they are no longer worth the effort or time, and nothing more than a total waste of time for anyone that even tries, I wash my hands of all of you. That should make all of you all happy, one less descenting voice, as if that matters.

If you try your little revolution you will find out how Real Patriots deal with Traitors that would attempt to tear this Nation apart.
Good Luck, you are going to need it.
Casper
A union of sovereigns doesn't mean your nation is divided. You think people should be forced?
You would fight people and states seeking sovereignty? Seems bizarre to me.
So I am just curious what your issue with that is?

Wow you seem really threatened by questions. I ask the question because it could happen. I don't think it would be from Paul supporters per se though.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:53 AM
 
Location: NC
1,946 posts, read 1,537,727 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Tearing the nation apart into seperate countries is tearing the Nation apart, you really are not that dense, are you?

Fight You, to the Death.

Enough with this, the Paul supporters here have shown they are no longer worth the effort or time, and nothing more than a total waste of time for anyone that even tries, I wash my hands of all of you. That should make all of you all happy, one less descenting voice, as if that matters.

If you try your little revolution you will find out how Real Patriots deal with Traitors that would attempt to tear this Nation apart.
Good Luck, you are going to need it.
Casper
Since you were unable to counter the historical evidence I laid out, now the very least you can do is to keep your word, and not pollute the Paul threads anymore. Goodbye? Please tell me you mean it.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:57 AM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,885,972 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by moving_pains View Post
Since you were unable to counter the historical evidence I laid out, now the very least you can do is to keep your word, and not pollute the Paul threads anymore. Goodbye? Please tell me you mean it.
Apparently my questions were very threatening.

I fear, Casper went to hunker down somewhere with a gun. (lol)

Ghost linger on, for a very long time, so I doubt there will be no more sightings.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:02 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,121 posts, read 33,555,721 times
Reputation: 14136
Casper probably is wondering why States have their own Constitutions and are in control of their own sovereignty.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:06 AM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,885,972 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Casper probably is wondering why States have their own Constitutions and are in control of their own sovereignty.
Actually, I would argue after the original declaration, much of that has gone down hill. States are more like corporate districts of Corp DC.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:38 AM
 
Location: PA
5,560 posts, read 4,961,156 times
Reputation: 1945
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

Declaration of independence.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:59 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,121 posts, read 33,555,721 times
Reputation: 14136
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll View Post
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

Declaration of independence.


And so it shall be said, LET FREEDOM RING!
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