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Old 01-16-2016, 10:58 AM
 
8,428 posts, read 7,432,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No, I'm not expressing my opinion. I'm deferring to the only directly related historical document.
First, to claim that it's the only directly related historical document is an outright lie.
  • The question of foreign influence came up in the Constitutional Convention during the debates upon the citizenship qualifications for congressmen and for senators; the result was that the qualifications for both offices were changed to require longer lengths of citizenship. See James Madison's notes on the convention, August 1787.
  • The power to define citizenship was granted to the Congress in the Constitution (Article I, Section 8, Clause 4).
  • The definition of natural born citizen was described in the Naturalization Act of 1790.

Second, Article II, Section I, Clause 5 doesn't mention foreign influence or dual citizenship. It only states a qualification of natural born citizenship. In D.C. vs Heller, Antonin Scalia threw out the preface of the Second Amendment ("A militia being necessary...") as a qualification for the right to bear arms. Apparently, a Supreme Court Justice can make the statement that the words stand on their own, but you are desperately trying to hammer your own unique interpretation of John Jay's letter into the Constitution.

So to claim that John Jay's letter establishes a requirement for the office of the Presidency is, at best, only your own opinion.

And may I remind you, your own opinion has come up short on many occasions with regards to the concept of citizenship.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:00 AM
 
13,307 posts, read 7,880,648 times
Reputation: 2144
A natural born citizen does not have a question mark over its head.

That was the intent of the framers.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:07 AM
 
26,579 posts, read 14,472,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
The simple fact is that now with the Newton Schwartz case filed,
it's going to the Supreme Court.
as has been pointed out repeatedly, schwartz lacks standing. the case will be rejected.

Quote:
... nor can he be speaker or any office in the
chain of succession ...
untrue. only VP has the same requirements as POTUS. someone not meeting the requirements for POTUS could hold a position in succession ( other then VP ), they just couldn't become POTUS.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:09 AM
 
Location: On the road
2,798 posts, read 2,680,186 times
Reputation: 3192
From all of the discussions and documents I have read, they have basically defined Natural Born Citizen as one who is a citizen by birth, not required to go through the naturalization process.

The law states that a child born to a citizen is also a citizen. So, if Cruz' mother was a citizen when he was born, he satisfies the criteria.

There have been discussions on the subject since the days of Chester A Arthur.
While it would please me to not have Cruz in the running for the office, he is apparently at least qualified as far as the citizenship question.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:12 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,079 posts, read 44,906,239 times
Reputation: 13724
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
First, to claim that it's the only directly related historical document is an outright lie.
If you believe so, post a link to another document from the time explicitly discussing "natural born citizen" in regards to Constitutional Presidential eligibility.

Quote:
[*]The power to define citizenship was granted to the Congress in the Constitution (Article I, Section 8, Clause 4).
If you believe so, why didn't Congress and the President enact 2004 Senate bill 2128 making Cruz and those like him Constitutionally eligile for POTUS?
Quote:
[*]The definition of natural born citizen was described in the Naturalization Act of 1790.[/list]
That was REPEALED in 1795 and applied to NO ONE born after 1795.

Quote:
Second, Article II, Section I, Clause 5 doesn't mention foreign influence or dual citizenship.
That's why we have to look at DIRECTLY RELATED historical documents to know exactly what was meant by the "natural born citizen" requirement. John Jay's letter of July 25, 1787 to George Washington is the ONLY historical document DIRECTLY RELATED to the Constitution's "natural born citizen" requirement. That's just historical fact.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:21 AM
 
13,307 posts, read 7,880,648 times
Reputation: 2144
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
From all of the discussions and documents I have read, they have basically defined Natural Born Citizen as one who is a citizen by birth, not required to go through the naturalization process.

The law states that a child born to a citizen is also a citizen. So, if Cruz' mother was a citizen when he was born, he satisfies the criteria.

There have been discussions on the subject since the days of Chester A Arthur.
While it would please me to not have Cruz in the running for the office, he is apparently at least qualified as far as the citizenship question.
Earth absorbs blood.

Canada owns Cruz.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:36 AM
 
Location: On the road
2,798 posts, read 2,680,186 times
Reputation: 3192
Technically, had his family pursued a life in the US, since his mother was a citizen by birth, he had dual citizenship, and had he been a resident of the US, he could logically have pursued a political career in the US.

But, obviously, his family held their roots in Great Britain, and he apparently never, in his entire life-time even considered his US citizenship worth pursuing.
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Old 01-16-2016, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Jawjah
2,468 posts, read 1,921,315 times
Reputation: 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic View Post
A natural born citizen does not have a question mark over its head.
That was a truly devastating comment from Trump
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Old 01-16-2016, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,571 posts, read 10,997,949 times
Reputation: 10818
I heard something yesterday about a lawyer in Texas filing a suit to determine his eligibility to be president.
Perhaps now we may get a clear ruling on the words natural born, and naturalized.

Let's hope so.

Bob.
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Old 01-16-2016, 01:18 PM
 
26,579 posts, read 14,472,137 times
Reputation: 7444
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
With Rubio, his parents had been living in the US but did not become citizens until after his birth. That has also been brought up and is being looked into. Yes, he was born a citizen but his parents did not have permanent residency here so the question is on "natural" not naturally a citizen.
this is addressed in ankeny v daniels:

"Based upon the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born Citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents."

Indiana appeals court defines "natural born citizen" - Obama Conspiracy Theories

this was an indiana appeals court decision. unfortunately the birthers dropped the ball and didn't appeal this to the SCOTUS ( my guess is that the SCOTUS would have upheld the decision ).
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