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A debate about policy is so much more useful than all this other crap sliding down the walls of this forum. I don't agree with Obama on everything, and certainly am not up to speed on a lot of it. But I really don't get this argument that Obama is all style and no substance. This time last year he was being criticised in the media for being a policy wonk - losing everyone in long policy speeches (there are links at the beginning of the thread - his policy speeches are a good thing to put on as you go to sleep at night - they'll knock you right out). He's got a lot of really thought out ideas and plans. Disagree with them, fine. Just don't say he doesn't have them.
Maybe we could set up a thread specifically for a serious discussion of Obama's ideas and you could be his pointman?
Create Automatic Workplace Pensions: Currently, 75 million working Americans – roughly half the workforce – lack employer-based retirement plans. Even when workers are given the option of joining employer-based plans, many do not take up the option because it requires considerable work to research plans and investment portfolios, and enroll in the plan. Barack Obama’s retirement security plan will automatically enroll workers in a workplace pension plan. Under his plan, employers who do not currently offer a retirement plan, will be required to enroll their employees in a direct-deposit IRA account that is compatible to existing direct-deposit payroll systems. Employees may opt-out by signing a written waiver. Even after enrollment, employees will retain the right to change their savings levels, reallocate investment portfolios or end contributions to the account. Obama’s plan will give options to the self-employed and new small businesses to access new easy-to-enroll savings plans and direct the IRS to deposit tax refunds into those savings plans for people who choose to save some of their refunds. Under the Obama plan when employees change jobs, their savings will be automatically rolled over into the new employer’s system to ensure continued savings. Experts estimate that this program will increase the savings participation rate for low and middle-income workers fromits current 15 percent level to around 80 percent.
Expand Retirement Savings Incentives for Working Families: Barack Obama will ensure savings incentives are fair to all workers by creating a generous savings match for low and middle-income Americans. Obama will expand the existing Savers Credit to match 50 percent of the first $1,000 of savings for families that earn under $75,000, and he will make the tax credit refundable. To help ensure that this proposal actually strengthens retirement investments, the savings match will be automatically deposited into designated personal accounts by using the account information listed on IRS tax filings. Coupled with the automatic workplace pension plan, this proposal will stimulate tens of millions of new Americans to invest for retirement. Over 80 percent of the savings incentives will go to new savers, and 75 percent of people eligible for the incentives who are expected to participate in the new program do not currently save.
" Even when workers are given the option of joining employer-based plans, many do not take up the option because it requires considerable work to research plans and investment portfolios, and enroll in the plan." Could you please point me towards the research that proves this? From my own experience, many people do not join employer-based plans because THEY CAN NOT AFFORD TO DO SO. They need every dime that comes out of their check just to pay their bills. Where is the proof otherwise?
"Under his plan, employers who do not currently offer a retirement plan, will be required to enroll their employees in a direct-deposit IRA account that is compatible to existing direct-deposit payroll systems." This will create additional work for businesses. Who is going to pay for that? Where will the money be invested? Is the rate of return guaranteed? Is the money guaranteed by the government? What difference is there between this and our current Social Security program? Current 401K programs? Current IRA programs? What happens if an employer doesn't offer "direct-deposit payroll"? Will the government force businesses to offer it? Who will pay that expense?
" Even after enrollment, employees will retain the right to change their savings levels, reallocate investment portfolios or end contributions to the account."
How is this different from current 401K programs?
"Obama’s plan will give options to the self-employed and new small businesses to access new easy-to-enroll savings plans and direct the IRS to deposit tax refunds into those savings plans for people who choose to save some of their refunds. Under the Obama plan when employees change jobs, their savings will be automatically rolled over into the new employer’s system to ensure continued savings." Other than the tax refund proposal, what is new about this?
" Experts estimate that this program will increase the savings participation rate for low and middle-income workers fromits current 15 percent level to around 80 percent." How? As I said above, the reason I've seen for people not participating is that they can't afford it. Until someone shows me something that proves otherwise, I'm going to continue to believe that low income workers are barely getting by and can't afford to contribute to retirement savings programs.
" Obama will expand the existing Savers Credit to match 50 percent of the first $1,000 of savings for families that earn under $75,000, and he will make the tax credit refundable." Who is going to pay for this?
There seems to be a lot of spending proposed with no mention of how it is going to be paid for. You can't pay for everything by rolling back the Bush tax cuts (which expire in 2010 anyway) and pulling the troops out of Iraq (which I don't think he'll be able to do).
I'd rather put my faith in smart, empathetical human beings with a history of compassion and self-sacrifice than only in some cold, immoral free market.
Humans are the basis of the free market. The problems occur when governments decide they know better than the people who use the markets. So I agree that humans would do a better job regulating the market than the government.
Can we get a list of the things from Obama that he probably won't or can't get passed? I'd like to eliminate those for the supporters as well. We should probably start with his healthcare plan.
h. Obama will invest $1 billion over five years in transitional jobs and career pathway programs that implement proven methods of helping low-income Americans succeed in the workforce. What proven methods is he referring to?
Thank goodness! This is just one of my beefs with the Clinton Administration and the Welfare Reform Act of the ‘90s. Basically, Clinton’s failed initiative moved non-skilled and low-skilled workers off of welfare and into low paying and non-progressive jobs. Yes, this is true. What used to be teenage jobs at fast-food restaurants soon became the mother-of-two-just-off-welfare jobs. This was done without any thought to actual job/life training. There is a reason for the term “generational welfare.”
Proven methods: Having a mentor; excelling in school; obtaining a college degree and/or a solid trade skill; understanding goals and learning how to achieve them (no, everyone’s parents don’t teach this); understanding the importance of “delayed gratification” and “sacrificing for your future”; speaking correct English and not being ashamed of it; finding your niche and excelling at it; embracing diversity – meaning, appreciating others’ opinions and accepting them as just that and not a threat; becoming responsible fathers; avoiding teenage pregnancy; and last but not least, taking responsibility for your own success in life.
i. Obama supports guaranteeing workers seven paid sick days per year. Who will pay for this? Employers? Taxpayers? Employers. Again, this is more directed at those workers who are marginalized and often don’t receive these types of benefits from their employers. I mean, think about it. Most major companies provide this and some. So, it’s truly only targeting a segment of the population.
Two things here:
h. Many of the areas that had the most trouble implementing Clinton's welfare reforms were rural areas. How does Obama plan to bring better jobs and education to rural areas? What will he do to invigorate the economies of rural areas?
i. I'm a small employer and I can't afford to offer any benefits. My company barely makes enough to pay everyone (including the owner) minimum wage. Is Obama going to give me money so I can provide better benefits to employees?
His healthcare plan has more of a chance than Hillary's. He is more of an incrementalist, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I like the fact the coverage under his plan is not madated. His focus will be more on the ethics of healthcare reform...making it available to all Americans without hidden costs and caps and regulations.
Can we get a list of the things from Obama that he probably won't or can't get passed? I'd like to eliminate those for the supporters as well. We should probably start with his healthcare plan.
Yes. We need a list of "goals" versus "policies."
I don't know who mentioned racial profiling above -- but for the life of me -- I WISH EVERYONE WOULD STOP MAKING SUCH A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT!! These days, the police put out an all points bulletin on somebody who has committed a crime (like rape, robbery, etc.) and they won't tell you what friggin' RACE the person is! What good does it do for me to know he's 6' tall and has black hair! 3/4 of friggin' LA has black hair!!!!! As far as I'm concerned, this is not racial profiling but for some reason, everyone seems to think it is! Why even bother to tell us to look out for someone if we aren't going to be told what race he appears to be? Am I the only one who has a problem with this?
His healthcare plan has more of a chance than Hillary's. He is more of an incrementalist, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I like the fact the coverage under his plan is not madated. His focus will be more on the ethics of healthcare reform...making it available to all Americans without hidden costs and caps and regulations.
People who have analyzed his healthplan say it will cost $4400 per person. Hillary's will only cost $2700 per person. Why is his so expensive?
People who have analyzed his healthplan say it will cost $4400 per person. Hillary's will only cost $2700 per person. Why is his so expensive?
Hers includes mandates that everyone be covered. Without those, people can game the system like they do now by getting medical help when they don't have insurance. Obama doesn't want to force his plan on people, just employers.
h. Many of the areas that had the most trouble implementing Clinton's welfare reforms were rural areas. How does Obama plan to bring better jobs and education to rural areas? What will he do to invigorate the economies of rural areas?
i. I'm a small employer and I can't afford to offer any benefits. My company barely makes enough to pay everyone (including the owner) minimum wage. Is Obama going to give me money so I can provide better benefits to employees?
I can only offer my opinion because your questions aren't fair. Then, if you will please, cite where the candidate of your choice is on these issues.
H. If companies had incentives to stay in the US, then perhaps they can open plants in these rural areas, so those living there can have more opportunities for better paying jobs. But, in short...I know Obama can't and won't fix everything wrong in America. This is just something he is wrongly accused of trying to do. He never has said he will be all things to all people. What will Hillary do? What will McCain do? There will always be poorer, rural areas in America.
I. If you qualify for the healthcare plan incentive...if not, then no; and he shouldn't. What will Hillary do? What will McCain do?
If a business owner cannot afford to pay a decent wage or offer even the most meager health plan for full-time employees, then he/she should work alone or with family members to grow the business and obtain outside financing to offset these costs. I do not support small business owners who hire illegal immigrants or pay under the table for their own greed and gain. Raise the capital to run a business, or, shut down your "business" and work solo.
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