Conservatives: Why do you hate liberalism so much, has a neo con govt. REALLY worked for America? (9/11, Reagan)
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Reagan was a very good President; he had to work with a Democratic-controlled Congress.
The Democratic-controlled Congress spent, on average, 2.8% more than Reagan asked for. There was also a defense build-up due to the Cold War.
Some think that the Cold War wasn't much of a threat, but those who lived through it know that isn't true. Also, the (former) Soviet Union had missiles with nuclear arms aimed at several major U.S. cities.
And Reagan did not "start" the whole deficit.
I lived through it,
Reagan was a victim of the neocons.
Reagan also raised taxes
Reagan was a fine president
Reagan was a very good President; he had to work with a Democratic-controlled Congress. The Democratic-controlled Congress spent, on average, 2.8% more than Reagan asked for. There was also a defense build-up due to the Cold War.
Some think that the Cold War wasn't much of a threat, but those who lived through it know that isn't true. Also, the (former) Soviet Union had missiles with nuclear arms aimed at several major U.S. cities.
The thread is long, so apologies if I missed something.
To the original poster:
I consider myself pretty far out on the right, and I do not "hate" liberalism. I think that its adherents are largely mistaken, but I think the liberal philosophy has a very valuable role to play.
As others have said, liberal thought is what leads to virtually *all* of the positive change in the world. As a conservative, I am comfortable to admit that this is true. In fact, it's almost axiomatic. If you start from an operating position that the world is a perfect place, then necessarily, *any* change is for the worse. I reject that the world has ever been perfect.
This makes it sometimes difficult to argue from the conservative point, because the plusses for liberalism are tangible; they are obvious. Women's suffrage. Child labour rules. Equal rights.
For us, the victories are the bad ideas that are stopped or rolled back. The 90% tax brackets. Speech codes of the sort seen in Canada. The eugenics movement.
It's sad but true that in the past 50 years (no it did not begin in 1992 with the election of Bill Clinton), there has been a drift, slow at first but picking up speed, to see your opponents not simply as people who see the world differently and thus to be engaged in vigourous discussion, but rather, as enemies to be crushed into the ground.
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There's been a lot of talk about Reagan here, and that was a neocon government that compared to W's (Reagan's was not quite as far out there though), worked for America, until H.W. Bush took it over.
It does not make me feel good if the information I have is inaccurate
When was that?
Said Qutb was a student from Eypt who I believe attended Colorado state university in the 1950's. During his stay he began to attest the liberalized American society and all things western and then returned to Egypt. It was during his involvement with the Muslim Brotherhood when he was arrested by the US backed Egyptian government that solidified his views and beliefs and in turn guided back to a radicalize version of fundamentalist Islam. So of those who studied under him (clerics) are those most of us are familiar with today, such as Bin Laden's right hand man.
It was from this contempt of liberalized western society in which he stated to fellow radicals that it was ok to kill fellow Muslims who did not embrace their cause and desire to return to more fundamentalist manners. (see their attempts on Mubark)
There have certainly been many others since and certainly others prior but if one steps back and looks at the broader aspect of this latest brand of radical Islam, nearly all roads lead to Said Qutb or his followers.
Well neoconseravtives are not really conservative. They are militant progressives who use America's religious right as tools to promote fear and cronyism, while throwing a few scraps to the fiscal conservatives in the guise that a lower tax rate will solve anything and everything, spending be damned.
You would have been more accurate had you stated that contemporary Republicans hate liberalism but contemporary Republicans are some of the most liberal people in America and would love to waterboard anyone who disagrees.
Chag-ching!! Chag-ching!! TnHilltopper you said it all again. Neo-con have destroyed this country. Neo-cons IMO can be found in all areas of the country and the media, including Bush et al, Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham and so called conservative talk radio. Contemporary republicans are among the most liberal.
The thread is long, so apologies if I missed something.
To the original poster:
I consider myself pretty far out on the right, and I do not "hate" liberalism. I think that its adherents are largely mistaken, but I think the liberal philosophy has a very valuable role to play.
As others have said, liberal thought is what leads to virtually *all* of the positive change in the world. As a conservative, I am comfortable to admit that this is true. In fact, it's almost axiomatic. If you start from an operating position that the world is a perfect place, then necessarily, *any* change is for the worse. I reject that the world has ever been perfect.
This makes it sometimes difficult to argue from the conservative point, because the plusses for liberalism are tangible; they are obvious. Women's suffrage. Child labour rules. Equal rights.
For us, the victories are the bad ideas that are stopped or rolled back. The 90% tax brackets. Speech codes of the sort seen in Canada. The eugenics movement.
It's sad but true that in the past 50 years (no it did not begin in 1992 with the election of Bill Clinton), there has been a drift, slow at first but picking up speed, to see your opponents not simply as people who see the world differently and thus to be engaged in vigourous discussion, but rather, as enemies to be crushed into the ground.
Best post of the thread.
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