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Good posts Patty. I'm amazed that people (mostly Liberals) continue to compare today's Islam to today's Christianity, to me, it's no comparison, at all.
Islam is involved with virtually every conflict in the world today, with the exception of Georgia and North Korea. Darfur, Spain, England, Sweden, Bosnia, riots in France, and attacks against the US. Iraq, Afghanistan, Israeli/Palistine....... and attempted bombings elsewhere.
There are no other people blowing themselves up for their cause. Lebanon was over 50% Christian, but there has not been a single Christian suicide bomber reported in fighting Israel.
Radical Islam has declared war on the western civilization, and that fact cannot be denied. The real question is, who are, and what will, the so called "moderates" do? To date, they've been quiet sheep.
The problem with your comparison is that many Islamic and Muslim countries are "developing" countries (much of the Middle East, parts of Asia, Africa), while many Christian countries are "developed" (Western countries). The economic state that these countries are in affects the attitudes they have toward other parts of the world. Just like the impoverished areas in our country are much more prone to crime and gangs. Without hope and opportunity, many young people turn to gangs and Jihads. Even poor suburban kids in Europe are turning to gangs and terrorism.
Don't get me wrong. Many Muslim countries are very very conservative in their religious beliefs. Just like many Christians in this country won't allow people of other religions to come over for dinner. Just like many Christians won't allow their children to associate with kids of other religions at school. Just like many Christians believe that the man is the "leader of the household". And just like many Christians believe that all non-believers will burn in eternal fire, and that it is their responsibility and duty to "save" all of these other religious people.
Islam is a peaceful religion. But when you add in Billions of people living in poverty, theocratic nation-states, and a culture being forced into a 21st century culture, after not having the benefit of that culture growing organically as it has in the U.S. over the last 100 years, you're bound to have social schisms. Before anyone says I'm apologizing for terrorism, I'm not. I'm just saying it's a lot more complicated than "that religion is bad". Look at the Muslim countries that we have no problems with and what is different: prosperity and growing economies.
In my opinion, if you are a fundamental Christian extremist, you're just one week of "no food on the table" away from blowing up your non believing neighbors.
Just look at the way Christians are circling the band-wagons lately saying they are "under attack". It sets up the classic "us vs. them" dichotomy which allows leaders to easily manipulate followers.
That's my belief anyway. And that's why I believe people like Palin should not hold positions of power in our government.
Radical Islam is the cause, moderate Muslims that practice Islam are doing little or nothing to confront it. If you aint part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
Just my opinion
Hmm... Don't know if this is part of the topic, but.....are there a lot of populations out there working hard within their populace to eradicate what others consider radicals? Just curious, because once you get rid of those radicals, do the moderates become the new radicals, or do the folks who called the eliminated radicals become the radicals? Just wondering, you guys appear to be experts on this stuff and so I figured you could define and clear up the radical cycle or chain so to speak.
Religion is oftentimes used to justify otherwise obviously morally and ethically wrong actions... such as invading a country for their natural resources.
Hmm... Don't know if this is part of the topic, but.....are there a lot of populations out there working hard within their populace to eradicate what others consider radicals? Just curious, because once you get rid of those radicals, do the moderates become the new radicals, or do the folks who called the eliminated radicals become the radicals? Just wondering, you guys appear to be experts on this stuff and so I figured you could define and clear up the radical cycle or chain so to speak.
Look around you. Is america seething with radicals and violence to the *extent that say, pakistan has? No. Do we have radicals. Yes. Do we suffer them gladly or silently? No. And that would be the difference.
*and when I say violence to the extent...I say that because I am sure someone will jump in with columbine, or abortion clinic bomber guy. Those were horrible but they were not the norm nor were they celebrated. The majority in this country are moderate, and even those that aren't rarely if ever go to the extremes of radical islam. Christian arab brings up a very valid point -- if you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. As americans we really have no power over radical islam. Moderate muslims however do have power to restrain thier extremist brethern. Easy? Nope. But the onus really does fall on them.
The problem with your comparison is that many Islamic and Muslim countries are "developing" countries (much of the Middle East, parts of Asia, Africa), while many Christian countries are "developed" (Western countries). The economic state that these countries are in affects the attitudes they have toward other parts of the world. Just like the impoverished areas in our country are much more prone to crime and gangs. Without hope and opportunity, many young people turn to gangs and Jihads. Even poor suburban kids in Europe are turning to gangs and terrorism.
Creating a causal relationship between the poor and crime is bigotry toward the poor. Many immigrants came to America with only the shirts on their backs, and they did not turn to a life of crime. Not only that, within one generation, they had risen out of poverty.
Don't get me wrong. Many Muslim countries are very very conservative in their religious beliefs. Just like many Christians in this country won't allow people of other religions to come over for dinner. Just like many Christians won't allow their children to associate with kids of other religions at school. Just like many Christians believe that the man is the "leader of the household". And just like many Christians believe that all non-believers will burn in eternal fire, and that it is their responsibility and duty to "save" all of these other religious people.
I grew up around Christians and have maintained close ties with the Christian community my entire life, and I can say honestly that I have NEVER encountered a Christian family who refused to have someone of another religion over for dinner, or refused to let their children play with non-Christians. The converse was true -- they loved having an opportunity to share their religion with others. The only time any Christians I knew shunned someone or refused to permit their children to play with them is if that person was a very bad influence. As for "burning in eternal fire," Good Lord! Where do you get this stuff? Sometimes ministers get dramatic for effect but I've never known anyone who actually told me I would burn in hell for being a Jew!
Islam is a peaceful religion.
Islam is not a peaceful religion. This lie must be stopped. It is an absurdity that must be put to rest if the problems are ever to be solved.
But when you add in Billions of people living in poverty, theocratic nation-states, and a culture being forced into a 21st century culture, after not having the benefit of that culture growing organically as it has in the U.S. over the last 100 years, you're bound to have social schisms.
Forced into entering the 21st century?? Excuse me, but have we all not been here the same amount of time? Did the Muslims just hatch in the last 100 years?
Before anyone says I'm apologizing for terrorism, I'm not.
That is exactly what you are doing.
I'm just saying it's a lot more complicated than "that religion is bad". Look at the Muslim countries that we have no problems with and what is different: prosperity and growing economies.
In my opinion, if you are a fundamental Christian extremist, you're just one week of "no food on the table" away from blowing up your non believing neighbors.
Absolute nonsense. There are many Christians AND religious Jews living in poverty and experiencing hunger, and to date, none of them have blown up their neighbors. None. Not. One.
Just look at the way Christians are circling the band-wagons lately saying they are "under attack". It sets up the classic "us vs. them" dichotomy which allows leaders to easily manipulate followers.
That's because they are under attack, by the leftists.
That's my belief anyway. And that's why I believe people like Palin should not hold positions of power in our government.
Mmm....fly by wire. Gotta love how the technology has translated down to cars.
True and that was 1950's technology, you better thank your anti-skid brakes for those mean kill-all military and aerospace toys that Dumbo wants to curb.
Look around you. Is america seething with radicals and violence to the *extent that say, pakistan has? No. Do we have radicals. Yes. Do we suffer them gladly or silently? No. And that would be the difference.
Hmm....Pakistan is full of radicals? Interesting. Seething with radicals, you say? Do they have police? I see they have an economy, a GDP, so someone's going to work...if the place is seething with radicals are they clashing with the moderates (the minority) which I guess makes the minority radicals since they don't ascribe to the norm. How can we possibly tell which group is radical? The minority or the majority? We should define radical, and quick, because I can't understand the context of your statement until we put a finger on what comprises a radical in Pakistan and how their radicals differ from radicals in other places throughout the World.
Last edited by walidm; 09-10-2008 at 01:36 PM..
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