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A member of the McCain camp said on MSNBC a while ago that was a strategic decision by the campaign. She didn't seem real anxious to explain and claim it was a wise move. My read is that what ever it was intended to accomplish it probably didn't. Someone else on the Republican side said senators don't usually look at each other when debating which might be true in the Senate but in a one on one debate? It might be they expected Obama to react someway and he didn't.
I thoight it was rude. I also saw that after the debate Obama and his wife walked over to shake their hands. Obama called him John I just think McCain thinks he always onb this Maverick fight and that might work in the senate but it comes across ignorant. Common ways to act to one another even when on different sides.
A member of the McCain camp said on MSNBC a while ago that was a strategic decision by the campaign. She didn't seem real anxious to explain and claim it was a wise move. My read is that what ever it was intended to accomplish it probably didn't. Someone else on the Republican side said senators don't usually look at each other when debating which might be true in the Senate but in a one on one debate? It might be they expected Obama to react someway and he didn't.
I don't think it was a wise tactic on McCain's part. By not looking at Obama or as some posters have pointedly stated, not looking at someone you disdain, it can be interpreted as a reflection on how you feel about the process. The American people placed Obama in a position to have a debate with McCain by making him the Democratic Nominee, and to dismiss him as being beneath you can be interpreted as a slap to those that voted for him and that is a pretty sizable population, and it does not bode well for working with those that you disagree with. I think it may have had the direct opposite effect then what they were going for but it may have played well with McCain's base.
As far as the first name thing, I see no problem with Obama addressing him as John when he was attempting to talk with him. If memory serves me correct, and I will have to review the debate again, he only used John when he was talking to him not when he was addressing the audience. When he addressed the audience he used Senator McCain.
Surely, even in martial arts, looking away is not a position of power... My question is why??
In martial arts, at least in my years of training, I've learned that making eye-contact is, first, a sign of weakness. If a person is trying to make eye-contact with you, it's fear that's driving them-- They want to do something, but can't bring themselves to action. Second, if you unintentionally make eye-contact, it causes two problems. One is that you might consider their humanity and, hence, not do what you may be forced to do. (That's from the perspective of training in old school techniques rather than punching or BJJ.) Second, and something that's very pertinent to this subject, is that it may distract you-- It's said that you may get "caught in their eyes."
When you're in calm discussions about big ideas, what do you do? You look up; to the left; to the right; down; around, etc. Why? Because you're looking at things in your mind's eye as you're putting things together.
Also, when do you make serious eye-contact in a conversation? When you're angry. Obama was angry last night. From start to finish and was "stabbing" with his eyes. McCain might dislike Obama, but he didn't want to look at him-- because he didn't want to see the person-- when hitting him.
I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with the torture. When you've experienced extreme violence, it's very difficult to accept someone's humanity and then try to hurt them-- even with words.
I don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by impishgrin
What a ridiculous, childish way to treat another person just because they don't see the world through YOUR eyes. Pure arrogance based in fear. A cheap bully tactic.
Isn't this a internet-based behavior comparable to the one you're criticizing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP
Someone else on the Republican side said senators don't usually look at each other when debating which might be true in the Senate but in a one on one debate?
It's against Senate rules to talk directly to each other. Senate debates are frequently between two people. The only time the Senators look at each other is when one is saying something like "My good friend from Virginia [now he looks away] is mistaken... "
I don't know what happened during the debate. I don't think McCain did as poorly as the media is convincing people, but I wish he was as well practiced as Obama was.
In martial arts, at least in my years of training, I've learned that making eye-contact is, first, a sign of weakness. If a person is trying to make eye-contact with you, it's fear that's driving them-- They want to do something, but can't bring themselves to action. Second, if you unintentionally make eye-contact, it causes two problems. One is that you might consider their humanity and, hence, not do what you may be forced to do. (That's from the perspective of training in old school techniques rather than punching or BJJ.) Second, and something that's very pertinent to this subject, is that it may distract you-- It's said that you may get "caught in their eyes."
When you're in calm discussions about big ideas, what do you do? You look up; to the left; to the right; down; around, etc. Why? Because you're looking at things in your mind's eye as you're putting things together.
Also, when do you make serious eye-contact in a conversation? When you're angry. Obama was angry last night. From start to finish and was "stabbing" with his eyes. McCain might dislike Obama, but he didn't want to look at him-- because he didn't want to see the person-- when hitting him.
I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with the torture. When you've experienced extreme violence, it's very difficult to accept someone's humanity and then try to hurt them-- even with words.
I don't know.
Isn't this a internet-based behavior comparable to the one you're criticizing?
It's against Senate rules to talk directly to each other. Senate debates are frequently between two people. The only time the Senators look at each other is when one is saying something like "My good friend from Virginia [now he looks away] is mistaken... "
I don't know what happened during the debate. I don't think McCain did as poorly as the media is convincing people, but I wish he was as well practiced as Obama was.
OneThousand, what would we do without your intelligence and insight!
In martial arts, at least in my years of training, I've learned that making eye-contact is, first, a sign of weakness. If a person is trying to make eye-contact with you, it's fear that's driving them-- They want to do something, but can't bring themselves to action. Second, if you unintentionally make eye-contact, it causes two problems. One is that you might consider their humanity and, hence, not do what you may be forced to do. (That's from the perspective of training in old school techniques rather than punching or BJJ.) Second, and something that's very pertinent to this subject, is that it may distract you-- It's said that you may get "caught in their eyes."
When you're in calm discussions about big ideas, what do you do? You look up; to the left; to the right; down; around, etc. Why? Because you're looking at things in your mind's eye as you're putting things together.
Also, when do you make serious eye-contact in a conversation? When you're angry. Obama was angry last night. From start to finish and was "stabbing" with his eyes. McCain might dislike Obama, but he didn't want to look at him-- because he didn't want to see the person-- when hitting him.
I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with the torture. When you've experienced extreme violence, it's very difficult to accept someone's humanity and then try to hurt them-- even with words.
I don't know.
Isn't this a internet-based behavior comparable to the one you're criticizing?
It's against Senate rules to talk directly to each other. Senate debates are frequently between two people. The only time the Senators look at each other is when one is saying something like "My good friend from Virginia [now he looks away] is mistaken... "
I don't know what happened during the debate. I don't think McCain did as poorly as the media is convincing people, but I wish he was as well practiced as Obama was.
Are you one of those fat, bearded guys I always see standing in front of the ty kwon do place with their pretty little purple belts and little decorations all over their white pajama thingys??? Do all of you guys still live in your moms basement? Those guys all drive crappy cars and are there all day every day, yet they still can't manage to lose the beer gut...hmmmm...
Anyway, not sure what kindof crazy world you live in, but here in the real one...We look people in the eye when we talk to them. For example, at work when I am talking with my director, or having a meeting, I look people in the eye. Not because I want to tear their head off and eat their liver, but because it's courtesy...Usually the people who won't look anyone in the eye are scared, ashamed, hiding something, fearful of something...
I learned that first hand in Iraq, when one of the Iraqis fidgeted a lot and wouldn't look you in the eye, that was one of the first signs to push harder because they were probably hiding something. Kind of reminded me of McCain last night...If it was an all out debate and Obama could have pressed him on things I think McCain would've snapped like a twig!
I saw this a bit differently. McCain's almost condescending stare at his own podium while ignoring Obama probably ticked off the Democrats but I think it gave the appearance of the school master chiding the student. I think this played well with older voters and particularly older white voters.
Not with THIS older white voter. It made me disgusted. Who does McCain think he is that he treats Senator Obama with such contempt? What an arrogant, elitist, jerk he is. I can't think of any other debate I have ever watched in which a debater just refused to even look at their opponent.
In martial arts, at least in my years of training, I've learned that making eye-contact is, first, a sign of weakness. If a person is trying to make eye-contact with you, it's fear that's driving them-- They want to do something, but can't bring themselves to action. Second, if you unintentionally make eye-contact, it causes two problems. One is that you might consider their humanity and, hence, not do what you may be forced to do. (That's from the perspective of training in old school techniques rather than punching or BJJ.) Second, and something that's very pertinent to this subject, is that it may distract you-- It's said that you may get "caught in their eyes."
When you're in calm discussions about big ideas, what do you do? You look up; to the left; to the right; down; around, etc. Why? Because you're looking at things in your mind's eye as you're putting things together.
Also, when do you make serious eye-contact in a conversation? When you're angry. Obama was angry last night. From start to finish and was "stabbing" with his eyes. McCain might dislike Obama, but he didn't want to look at him-- because he didn't want to see the person-- when hitting him.
I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with the torture. When you've experienced extreme violence, it's very difficult to accept someone's humanity and then try to hurt them-- even with words.
I don't know.
Isn't this a internet-based behavior comparable to the one you're criticizing?
It's against Senate rules to talk directly to each other. Senate debates are frequently between two people. The only time the Senators look at each other is when one is saying something like "My good friend from Virginia [now he looks away] is mistaken... "
I don't know what happened during the debate. I don't think McCain did as poorly as the media is convincing people, but I wish he was as well practiced as Obama was.
OMG this is the funniest thing I have read in a long time but you forgot to put a smiley on the end. You wouldn't want anyone to think you were being serious. This one has made my day, !!
Keep convincing yourselves that no eye contact is how normal people act, especially in a debate.
No forum bleed, please. Just because you were wrong in the MI threads doesn't mean you have to hold a grudge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAisGreat
Are you one of those fat, bearded guys I always see standing in front of the ty kwon do place with their pretty little purple belts and little decorations all over their white pajama thingys??? Do all of you guys still live in your moms basement? Those guys all drive crappy cars and are there all day every day, yet they still can't manage to lose the beer gut...hmmmm...
No beard, not overweight, on my own, no patches, newer car and I don't hang out at a dojang. I just like to train.
Quote:
Anyway, not sure what kindof crazy world you live in, but here in the real one...We look people in the eye when we talk to them. For example, at work when I am talking with my director, or having a meeting, I look people in the eye. Not because I want to tear their head off and eat their liver, but because it's courtesy...Usually the people who won't look anyone in the eye are scared, ashamed, hiding something, fearful of something...
I don't disagree with that. My assertions are context dependent.
Regarding your examples, however, in my experience, when I'm in a professional situation, I'm not arguing ideology. Typically, in professional situations, we're selling to the person we're speaking-- not competing. (Selling as in "convincing them that our idea is the best.") In those situations you're trying to connect to the person you're speaking. With this in mind, it's obvious that your post is irrelevant and exposes you to be an idiot
Quote:
I learned that first hand in Iraq, when one of the Iraqis fidgeted a lot and wouldn't look you in the eye, that was one of the first signs to push harder because they were probably hiding something.
Generalizations serve a valuable purpose. However, again, context is significant.
Last edited by One Thousand; 09-27-2008 at 06:29 PM..
Reason: typo
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