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If I had 10 dollars for every time on here that someone claimed Nord stream 2 will be finished...
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
So that yet another "demographic gap" that DKM was gloating about, ( that supposedly comes to Russia in 12 years, ) is the direct result of the generation born in the 90ies, coming in its reproductive phase.
And since there were so few of them born at that time (and keeping in mind that this barbarian privatization made about 2 million children homeless, plus exporting the orphanage children out of the country became very easy,) - obviously Russia is expecting yet another demographic gap in the nearest future.
Point of clarification for our English challenged posters. When I said Russia's population will drop the most in 12 years this meant, in 2020, Russia's population will decline the most since 2007. Perhaps I should have written "13 years ago". Out of the 12 years since 2007, it has declined 9 of those years but none as much as 2020. Dagestan and Tuva will not be able to make up for the decline elsewhere.
If I had 10 dollars for every time on here that someone claimed Nord stream 2 will be finished...
Point of clarification for our English challenged posters. When I said Russia's population will drop the most in 12 years this meant, in 2020, Russia's population will decline the most since 2007. Perhaps I should have written "13 years ago". Out of the 12 years since 2007, it has declined 9 of those years but none as much as 2020. Dagestan and Tuva will not be able to make up for the decline elsewhere.
Right.
You can juggle the number of years all you want DKM - it's all semantics.
The point I made still remains the same; after the economic genocide of Russians and steep decline of births in connection with it, it's only natural to expect yet another plunge in population 20+years later down the road, after those less numerous generations come into reproductive phase.
( Putin was publicly addressing this specific issue by the way, saying that the government will try now to come up with as many incentives for potential mothers as possible, precisely because there are not enough of them around because of that previous gap.)
As much as the old soviets hate to admit it, they know that the youth in Russia want to be Europeans.
Once again you are taking your dreams for reality. Many young people in Russia do not want to have anything to do with these "tolerant homosexuals." Moreover, people have already begin run, like rats from the ship, from "blessed" America. I'm not talking about all sorts of famous personalities.. already ordinary people started to get out of there..just last week,a man who returned from the US after living there for 16 years came to work for the company where works my wife.. Naturally, they immediately began to ask him why he come back? He said simply: in this chaos and lawlessness, it became absolutely impossible for a normal person to live. Says I'm tired of their fake smiles. Something like that.
Right.
You can juggle the number of years all you want DKM - it's all semantics.
The point I made still remains the same; after the economic genocide of Russians and steep decline of births in connection with it, it's only natural to expect yet another plunge in population 20+years later down the road, after those less numerous generations come into reproductive phase.
( Putin was publicly addressing this specific issue by the way, saying that the government will try now to come up with as many incentives for potential mothers as possible, precisely because there are not enough of them around because of that previous gap.)
Except those policies ultimately failed, sure they increased birth rates, but not enough to get above replacement level, which is a failure in my book. This makes sense though since a one time payment will quickly be spent and can’t be relied on. Having a child is a long term investment and would be parents only want the best for them. You would be hard pressed to find someone willing to provide their children a living standard worse then the one they grew up with. So if Putin wants people to have multiple kids, then he needs to provide them with stable high paying jobs, or perhaps a basic income (welfare) to mothers. Essentially making full time motherhood a full time job that can put food on the table.
Except those policies ultimately failed, sure they increased birth rates, but not enough to get above replacement level, which is a failure in my book. This makes sense though since a one time payment will quickly be spent and can’t be relied on. Having a child is a long term investment and would be parents only want the best for them. You would be hard pressed to find someone willing to provide their children a living standard worse then the one they grew up with.
Of course they failed.
I can only shrug my shoulders; I already said long time ago that without Soviet policies ethnic Russians are bound to die out, since women over there WILL NOT give birth to children, ( even if they really want children,) until they have guarantees of stable income, free healthcare, daycares and decent schools.
All this la-la about "sin of abortion"/adoptions and so on won't work there on a grand scale, because everyone understands the consequences of it. If you can't provide for your child yourself, god knows what might happen to that child, so what mother in her right mind would give birth, with perspective of passing child to the risky unknown?
And men? They can't be really relied on; today they are here, and tomorrow they can find another love/relationship. And the state won't bother too much going after them for child support - it would rather try to snatch the child and put it into orphanage, if mother can't pull it off financially.
Therefore women look realistically at the whole situation, and the number of children is shrinking in the country.
So Putin and Co are trying to be smart-asses and to target "happy, financially stable families" instead, enticing them with money to have as many children as possible. However there is no sufficient numbers in Russia of such "child production" units.
Quote:
So if Putin wants people to have multiple kids, then he needs to provide them with stable high paying jobs, or perhaps a basic income (welfare) to mothers. Essentially making full time motherhood a full time job that can put food on the table.
Mhm. And what if such women will decide to not to work, and to live on these money instead?
Can you imagine how many will try to get away with it, how much it will cost "to the state" and what meager funds will be left for the yachts of the government officials in this case? God forbids.
Plus some other women are arguing the case, that under these polices only "low quality women" would be procreating, and thus in order to produce "better genetic material," ALL women/families simply need to be wealthier across the line.
Which, of course, is not happening any time soon.
Meanwhile, that birth rate line is sliding lower and lower in Russia on the charts.
That's what *miracle of liberal economy* can do for you.
I can only shrug my shoulders; I already said long time ago that without Soviet policies ethnic Russians are bound to die out, since women over there WILL NOT give birth to children, ( even if they really want children,) until they have guarantees of stable income, free healthcare, daycares and decent schools.
All this la-la about "sin of abortion"/adoptions and so on won't work there on a grand scale, because everyone understands the consequences of it. If you can't provide for your child yourself, god knows what might happen to that child, so what mother in her right mind would give birth, with perspective of passing child to the risky unknown?
And men? They can't be really relied on; today they are here, and tomorrow they can find another love/relationship. And the state won't bother too much going after them for child support - it would rather try to snatch the child and put it into orphanage, if mother can't pull it off financially.
Therefore women look realistically at the whole situation, and the number of children is shrinking in the country.
So Putin and Co are trying to be smart-asses and to target "happy, financially stable families" instead, enticing them with money to have as many children as possible. However there is no sufficient numbers in Russia of such "child production" units.
Mhm. And what if such women will decide to not to work, and to live on these money instead?
Can you imagine how many will try to get away with it, how much it will cost "to the state" and what meager funds will be left for the yachts of the government officials in this case? God forbids.
Plus some other women are arguing the case, that under these polices only "low quality women" would be procreating, and thus in order to produce "better genetic material," ALL women/families simply need to be wealthier across the line.
Which, of course, is not happening any time soon.
Meanwhile, that birth rate line is sliding lower and lower in Russia on the charts.
That's what *miracle of liberal economy* can do for you.
This is a problem in a lot of industrialized nations. The US included which has great success fighting it with immigration. Some other European nations such as Poland a Hungary are struggling too.
It's our system of capitalism. It's brutal. What matters is profits, as much as possible as quickly as possible. In a nutshell anyway.
I hear through the grape vine that a woman born in 2000 face great challenges finding a mate capable of providing for a family today no matter how hard he may work. 2 jobs whatever unless they are involved
I know families who with both parents working can barely make it. They don't spend foolishly either. I recently replaced an alternator at the request of a neighbor with 2 kids. The mother home alone did not know how and the father was away working. The mother only works part time due to Covid.
... a mate capable of providing for a family today no matter how hard he may work. 2 jobs whatever unless they are involved
People almost all over the world want to live like in rich West countries. They want to live in a big city, to have a big townhouse and a car for each family member. They'd like to buy a new car about once a three years and a new smartphone every year.
I have heard many times something like "he's a real man and works three jobs. He has everything and pays car loan and apartment loan".
Can all people in all countries have this lifestyle? We can say "the resources are limited", can we?
Last edited by good_deal_maker; 12-05-2020 at 10:52 AM..
People almost all over the world want to live like in rich West countries. They want to live in a big city, to have a big townhouse and a car for each family member. They'd like to buy a new car about once a three years and a new smartphone every year.
I have heard many times something like "he's a real man and works three jobs. He has everything and pays car loan and apartment loan".
Can all people in all countries have this lifestyle? We can say "the resources are limited", can we?
No. I'm from the west, born and raised in the west. I see no reason to live to such excesses and do not. There are many people like me. Tell me a reason why someone needs 10000 or even 100000 xs what they need to live a comfortable life when poverty is rife just a block away from their penthouse?
This inequality leads down roads I fear to venture. I don't like the thought of myself living in luxury when a child somewhere in Venezuela is going hungry, scrabbling to survive day to day. That child is POTENTIAL. Our children are our future. That such a thing can occure in this day and age is not a good testament to humanity and our way of doing things.
It tells me we are not as far out of the caves as we would like to think. When America has spent trillions destroying and killing, when that money could educate and care for every child walking and squawking this very day is used in such a manner it frankly makes me want to puke.
The issue is not about resources. The issue is about the allocation of those resources.
I can only shrug my shoulders; I already said long time ago that without Soviet policies ethnic Russians are bound to die out, since women over there WILL NOT give birth to children, ( even if they really want children,) until they have guarantees of stable income, free healthcare, daycares and decent schools.
All this la-la about "sin of abortion"/adoptions and so on won't work there on a grand scale, because everyone understands the consequences of it. If you can't provide for your child yourself, god knows what might happen to that child, so what mother in her right mind would give birth, with perspective of passing child to the risky unknown?
And men? They can't be really relied on; today they are here, and tomorrow they can find another love/relationship. And the state won't bother too much going after them for child support - it would rather try to snatch the child and put it into orphanage, if mother can't pull it off financially.
Therefore women look realistically at the whole situation, and the number of children is shrinking in the country.
So Putin and Co are trying to be smart-asses and to target "happy, financially stable families" instead, enticing them with money to have as many children as possible. However there is no sufficient numbers in Russia of such "child production" units.
Mhm. And what if such women will decide to not to work, and to live on these money instead?
Can you imagine how many will try to get away with it, how much it will cost "to the state" and what meager funds will be left for the yachts of the government officials in this case? God forbids.
Plus some other women are arguing the case, that under these polices only "low quality women" would be procreating, and thus in order to produce "better genetic material," ALL women/families simply need to be wealthier across the line.
Which, of course, is not happening any time soon.
Meanwhile, that birth rate line is sliding lower and lower in Russia on the charts.
That's what *miracle of liberal economy* can do for you.
With women you have two choices either delay going to college, get married young to a guy who can support the both of you (which is getting harder and harder to find), and have multiple healthy children that are easier to birth at a young age, and then when the kids get old enough to look after themselves, go back into the workforce only to be deemed outdated and out competed with young people fresh from college and risk getting divorced and left alone jobless. Or delay having children gain the experience to become a highly skilled professional and then step away from all of that in the mid 30s just to have enough time to raise 1 healthy child and risk complications along the way. If children are in demand and most women don’t want to sacrifice their careers then I think it’s fair to pay women who are willing to sacrifice it all to raise the next generation. It kinda sounds dystopian but that’s where we are at right now. It’s almost as if those misogynist religious leaders had a point for locking women away in the kitchen. There is of course a third option, the man scarifies his career and looks after the kids and the mother becomes the bread winner of the house. But our society has deemed that scenario an aberration and most women are not willing to marry down and most men are not willing to let go of the status as being the bread winner.
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God forbids.
Income and needs
