Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So a little detour here: how do you folks think the mess with Russia & Ukraine will end? I grew up in the Balkans, and had always infinitely regretted that I have not visited the Golden Circle of the old Russia, or taken the TranSiberian Rail, or a barge trip down a few large Russian rivers when I was 20ish & lived in the Balkans (now am 62.5 & have lived in the US for almost 40 years - 39 to be exact) - but previously my regret was because when I was 20ish, such trips would have been dirt-cheap, while in the 21st century tourist costs of travel in Russia had skyrocketed... but now my regret is also because my Russian trips likely ain't ever happening, for obvious reasons :-(...
Anyway, back to the question. I believe the end of this will be the following:
1. some international diplomatic solution will be reached, where Russia will get all the territory it had sought (plus it will likely peacefully annex Belarus), but it will be required to pay massive reparations to Ukraine
2. Russia will try not to pay, leading to continued diplomatic squabbles & economic blockade of Russia, but no more war. Between some Russian payments & high exports, Ukraine will likely do very well economically post-reconstruction
3. European countries have learned the hard way not to deal with Russia economically. Russia, though, is self-sufficient, and will be okay remaining isolated. But I (along with everyone else) won't be able to travel there...
Still, I just wish they would get this over with & stop killing themselves & destabilizing the whole world.
Since every Russian occupied Ukrainian settlement has a torture chamber, a killing yard and some sort of a mini concentration camp, it would take a lot of moral degeneracy for Ukrainians to be forced to give up their land for cash. Besides the Russians will be back to finish Ukraine/Ukrainians off. The only reasonable solution for Ukrainians is to fight now until victory or until their fighting spirit is broken. Hopefully they will dispatch a lot of Russian nazi pigs one way or another.
These are all crazy variants. Most likely and hopefully Ukraine retakes everything till the end of this year and Putin gets replaced by soon-freed Navalny. Or worst case: The war continues for as long as the Israel-Palestine conflict, that is - forever. Except Israel is recognized while eastern ukraine will never be considered Russia by almost every country on earth, excluding Belarus and Iran, North Korea.
Since every Russian occupied Ukrainian settlement has a torture chamber, a killing yard and some sort of a mini concentration camp, it would take a lot of moral degeneracy for Ukrainians to be forced to give up their land for cash. Besides the Russians will be back to finish Ukraine/Ukrainians off. The only reasonable solution for Ukrainians is to fight now until victory or until their fighting spirit is broken. Hopefully they will dispatch a lot of Russian nazi pigs one way or another.
It would not be being forced to give up their land for cash, but for peace & survival (cash would be just something they could hope to get, that somewhat levels the loss of some pieces of the country). Russia will not stop any time soon, and the West will not help adequatly because nobody wants to escalate a world war unless directly attacked. Remember, when Hitler went after Poland, nobody did anything of consequence to help - only when he attacked their own countries (which Putin doesn't seem to want - his ambiotion is limited to re-acquiring emancipated parts of the former USSR). The US did not enter the WW2 on the Allies side because of good heart, sense of justice, desire to help & protect Europe, but because the US itself was ultimately attacked, because of Pearl Harbor.
It would not be being forced to give up their land for cash, but for peace & survival (cash would be just something they could hope to get, that somewhat levels the loss of some pieces of the country). Russia will not stop any time soon, and the West will not help adequatly because nobody wants to escalate a world war unless directly attacked. Remember, when Hitler went after Poland, nobody did anything of consequence to help - only when he attacked their own countries (which Putin doesn't seem to want - his ambiotion is limited to re-acquiring emancipated parts of the former USSR). The US did not enter the WW2 on the Allies side because of good heart, sense of justice, desire to help & protect Europe, but because the US itself was ultimately attacked, because of Pearl Harbor.
Russia is determined to commit thorough genocide of the occupied areas. With murder, torture & terror for the undesirables and thorough brainwashing and russification for the survivors. Giving up land for cash would mean selling those lives for cash, a promise of cash to be exact. Russian promises? Laughable. The Russian will lick their wounds and they'll be back to finish Ukraine off. Bleeding Russian nazis until there is a shred of the will to fight remains is the only option. Russian ambitions are global and megalomaniacal, not limited to the post soviet countries. Letting Russia to trash post ww2 order and to establish a precedent for the nuclear blackmail, legalized annexation and genocide is stupid on many levels. It attacks foundations of the global order USA worked to establish.
Russia is determined to commit thorough genocide of the occupied areas. With murder, torture & terror for the undesirables and thorough brainwashing and russification for the survivors. Giving up land for cash would mean selling those lives for cash, a promise of cash to be exact. Russian promises? Laughable. The Russian will lick their wounds and they'll be back to finish Ukraine off. Bleeding Russian nazis until there is a shred of the will to fight remains is the only option. Russian ambitions are global and megalomaniacal, not limited to the post soviet countries. Letting Russia to trash post ww2 order and to establish a precedent for the nuclear blackmail, legalized annexation and genocide is stupid on many levels. It attacks foundations of the global order USA worked to establish.
Did you read what I wrote? Not giving land up for cash, but for peace and survival, and trying to get cash in addition to that. If you prefer to fight & think you can win, go right ahead; it is ultimately not my war one way or another (since I don't think Russian ambitions are global. Russia has just removed itself from the global community). I also don't think the USA has established any global order, or has worked for it. The USA works for its own interests (which is normal; every country does).
Hey, since we're talking about Russia and Ukraine both committing atrocities in the "occupied territories", I just remembered, that Russia had called for a UN fact-finding mission to regarding a bombing incident a few months ago. There was an accusation that Ukraine bombed a building full of Ukrainian POW's, that Russia denied being involved in. And there were other incidents that both sides wanted to have evaluated by the UN.
Did the fact-finding mission ever take place? If so, where are the reports?
Hey, since we're talking about Russia and Ukraine both committing atrocities in the "occupied territories", I just remembered, that Russia had called for a UN fact-finding mission to regarding a bombing incident a few months ago. There was an accusation that Ukraine bombed a building full of Ukrainian POW's, that Russia denied being involved in. And there were other incidents that both sides wanted to have evaluated by the UN.
Did the fact-finding mission ever take place? If so, where are the reports?
Russia can't 'call' for anything, not until they b*gger off back to their side of the border! Russia have illegally invaded a separate Sovereign State, they are lambasted by the rest of the globe for doing so, if they want to be listened to I suggest they withdraw immediately.
Russia can't 'call' for anything, not until they b*gger off back to their side of the border! Russia have illegally invaded a separate Sovereign State, they are lambasted by the rest of the globe for doing so, if they want to be listened to I suggest they withdraw immediately.
Both sides called for a UN investigation into that incident.
These are all crazy variants. Most likely and hopefully Ukraine retakes everything till the end of this year and Putin gets replaced by soon-freed Navalny. Or worst case: The war continues for as long as the Israel-Palestine conflict, that is - forever. Except Israel is recognized while eastern ukraine will never be considered Russia by almost every country on earth, excluding Belarus and Iran, North Korea.
I did not list multiple variants but only one, the one that would lead to the lowest continued loss of life & peace (what I listed is one solution with three steps, not multiple solutions or variants). You think your first variant is possible without substantial US intervention? Or that the US would be willing to endanger itself & the whole planet by pursuing such an intervention, in a local conflict in which the US does not have real geopolitical interests? No normal country, least of all the US, will risk the queen to save a chess figure of lower value.
Both sides called for a UN investigation into that incident.
One side has a right to..........the 'side' that hasn't broken international law! Until Putin and his cronies withdraw their illegal occupation they have NO say in anything.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
