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This "survival" mode is precisely what makes Russian culture a warrior culture. More than that - it makes Russian men ( the ones that are worthy of course) very versatile as well - they are good handy-men, they are pretty inventive in their daily life; they can build, they can fix cars, they know how to survive in the wilderness. Yet at the same time they have this whole "bonding" thing going on between them, which makes them good fighters.
The last feature in particular is absent in Finns I think. They are more of a loners; I picture them more as "hunters" than "warriors" per se.
And Germans are in a different category all together.
I think the only reason they are good fighters, is because they take EVERYTHING very seriously, in the whole scope and depth of it, fighting including.
If you are looking from man's point of view Scrat, then probably that's what it is.
But as a woman, I am not sure what "excellence" is.
Interestingly enough, all these qualities that make Russian men good fighters/protectors of their land, the whole reliability/male bonding thing, is what at the same time makes them not a good "husband material." ( Again - it's just my personal observation/opinion.) It's almost as if they never really belong to their families/wives first and utmost - but instead, they are serving a "higher cause." And as soon as they hear that alarm going off, ( whatever that might be,) they are gone, often never to be seen alive again.
(I guess someone like Motorola was a perfect example of it.)
And that's a big part of that infamous ( or famous - whichever you prefer) Russian sense of fatalism.
Why do you consider russians as strong warrior and russian culture as warrior like?
It's a stereotype I always heard, but nobody can really back it up.
When I take a look at russian military history, what make them win a war isn't the quality of there soldier but there numbers. Everytime they win because they have more soldiers and are able to handle more casualitys.
In all russian history, the only war I found where russians won in numeric inferiority was the war against Persia.
Uh, I don't know about that one...
Overall when it comes to Russian men, my observation is that they operate the best in the "emergency mode." Before that things are half-done, or barely done, but in the emergency mode everything becomes amazingly effective and efficient))))
Most males seem to be this way from my experience. It's from ones prioritization habits. Most work from the perspective of if it isn't broken don't fix it. Women are the opposite. The light comes on full panic is the reaction.
Why do you consider russians as strong warrior and russian culture as warrior like?
It's a stereotype I always heard, but nobody can really back it up.
When I take a look at russian military history, what make them win a war isn't the quality of there soldier but there numbers. Everytime they win because they have more soldiers and are able to handle more casualitys.
In all russian history, the only war I found where russians won in numeric inferiority was the war against Persia.
Read the books by Robert Forcysk. Russian soldiers are pretty much like any other but like any human being they will do extraordinary things under certain conditions.
German generals made many excuses for their failures in WWII in the east, weather, terrain and whatever minutia they could toss into the mix. Russians suffered Just as much in all ways but in the end it came down to who really went to war and why, who learned from their mistakes and who could adapt.
Material superiority was a factor. Period. It always was for both sides in many aspects. In any war though what it comes down too is the boots on the ground and why their fighting. Germans we're fighting for such things as prestige and racial superiority and living space. Russians were fighting for their homes families in many cases and way of life against a people who was trying to oppress them. In the last year's it was revenge, not undeserved in many cases.
Don't **** off the Russians. Dont knock on their door and think you're better than them in their own home. They might take an interest in seeing you suffer.
Read the books by Robert Forcysk. Russian soldiers are pretty much like any other but like any human being they will do extraordinary things under certain conditions.
German generals made many excuses for their failures in WWII in the east, weather, terrain and whatever minutia they could toss into the mix. Russians suffered Just as much in all ways but in the end it came down to who really went to war and why, who learned from their mistakes and who could adapt.
Material superiority was a factor. Period. It always was for both sides in many aspects. In any war though what it comes down too is the boots on the ground and why their fighting. Germans we're fighting for such things as prestige and racial superiority and living space. Russians were fighting for their homes families in many cases and way of life against a people who was trying to oppress them. In the last year's it was revenge, not undeserved in many cases.
Don't **** off the Russians. Dont knock on their door and think you're better than them in their own home. They might take an interest in seeing you suffer.
You don't really answear to my questions.
You argue that russians soldiers learned from their mistakes and could adapt better, ok. So why they loss more men than the opposit side in all the battle. Even when they were in numeric superiority?
What lead you to think russian guy are more warlike than other people?
If you are looking from man's point of view Scrat, then probably that's what it is.
But as a woman, I am not sure what "excellence" is.
Interestingly enough, all these qualities that make Russian men good fighters/protectors of their land, the whole reliability/male bonding thing, is what at the same time makes them not a good "husband material." ( Again - it's just my personal observation/opinion.) It's almost as if they never really belong to their families/wives first and utmost - but instead, they are serving a "higher cause." And as soon as they hear that alarm going off, ( whatever that might be,) they are gone, often never to be seen alive again.
(I guess someone like Motorola was a perfect example of it.)
And that's a big part of that infamous ( or famous - whichever you prefer) Russian sense of fatalism.
I think the Motorola thing is more about ego than anything else. The female version of this is your average fashionista. Guys often do run in packs and consider others to be outsiders, even their own kin in some cases. I was never that way, my kin are my pack and I would treat even good friends as Intruders at times. The boys my daughter's would hang with hated me even though I tried to make it all normal or whatever they just didn't feel comfortable around me.
I can see why a guy would do what Motorola did IF there was a threat worthy of the word I'd do the same but not for glory or something so foolish.
The excellence thing doesn't just apply to Russian men. My ex was an excellent mother, skilled and unbiased even though one was not even her own blood. It was about the family to her, northing else. Sadly the fashionista side came out and her stubborn egotistical nature became just too much.
You argue that russians soldiers learned from their mistakes and could adapt better, ok. So why they loss more men than the opposit side in all the battle. Even when they were in numeric superiority?
What lead you to think russian guy are more warlike than other people?
Which are thoses extraordinary things they did?
No time now. I'll give you a better answer later today.
[quote=citoyen;47846869]You don't really answear to my questions.
Quote:
You argue that russians soldiers learned from their mistakes and could adapt better, ok. So why they loss more men than the opposit side in all the battle. Even when they were in numeric superiority?
Command and control was a huge issue for the Red Army all through the war. In 1941 the Germans had mobile command vehicles with radio sets that could talk to units 75 km away, if the Russian commanders had a radio at all it only had a range of 5 to 7 km. The Germans had mobile infantry, artillery and air power all which talked to one another. The Germans had modern highly mobile Blitzkrieg tactics the Russians used outdated WWI tactics. Strongpoint defenses, echelon defense and attack formations. Russia made mistakes that were simply as stupid as driving tanks and men over cliffs by the thousands. It was due to confusion, lack of information, lack off coordination and in some cases incompetence and even cowardice.
In 1943 those things started to change. C&C became better, the incompetent generals were weeded out Russian soldiers were surviving and being able to pass knowledge to new recruits. T-34s were available in quantity as was artillery and a better airforce all better at working together. By Kursk the Russians knew how to beat the Germans. By 1944 the writing was on the wall, the steamroller could not be stopped.
The Russians lost millions to learn how to fight the Germans but they didn't die in vain unlike their opponents.
In reference to your question about numerical superiority. In one of those books (Schwerpunkt?) Forcysk tells some things about his time in the US army as a tanker. He was in a group of 14 tanks and one of their training exercises was called 13 on 1. 13 tanks to attack a single dug in tank. They had no info of the where the defending tank was, no air support, no infantry or artillery. Every time they did this exercise the attackers were wiped out. When attacking the defenders always have the advantage.
Even at the start of the war the Russians were capable of winning provided they had support. I think they could have stopped the Germans if not for the lousy logistics and state of the western military districts. The BT-7 was actually a very good tank but with a 1/4 tank of gas and 10 rounds of ammo it was just a target. The same rule applied to the Germans later. The Russians used everything they had and often ended up in ambushes after over extending themselves like at Kharkov. Chuikov laments the many times he issued the orders to halt an advance only to find out a day later the troops kept going only to be kicked into the dirt by the Germans. He knew he was often ignored by the troops who didn't want to stop.
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What lead you to think russian guy are more warlike than other people?
Not more warlike just better at it when the bullets start to fly. Historically Russians rarely start fights but do finish them.
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Which are thoses extraordinary things they did?
Read about the battles around St Petersburg. Ponyri on the north flank of the Kursk bulge. Stalingrad, Kharkov, Kherson, Orel, Smolensk, Rshev, Voronezh, operation Uranus, Saturn and the Crimea.
If you really want to know what happened there you need to read a lot. It's been a hobby of mine for decades. Stay away from western media.
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