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OP: pay no heed to this. And that's also the downside with Stockholm: you get these kind of arrogant cultural supremacists. Stockholm is a nice city and worth visiting, but the people are terrible.
I’m actually from Stockholm and we are not cultural supremacists. I’m just telling you the truth. Stockholms is the hub of Nordic progressive thought, art, journalism, technology, history, buildings, and general culture. I cannot see any other cities among the Nordic countries that can compete with Stockholm. The list of cosmopolitan cities worth visiting in Nordic countries is short. The rest of the cities in Nordic countries is about an small-medium city-lifestyle, which means outdoor life like skiing, hiking, sailing. According to GaWC (2012)
1. Stockholm (Alpha-)
2. Copenhagen (Beta+)
3. Helsinki (Beta)
4. Oslo (Beta)
5. Gothenburg (Gamma-)
6. Malmo (Gamma-)
7. Aarhus (Sufficiency)
8. ReykjavÃk (Sufficiency)
Stockholm is comparable to American cities like Miami, San Francisco and Boston. In Europe - Stockholm compete with Vienna, Barcelona, Zurich, Munich, Istanbul, Warsaw and Prague. Cities like Copenhagen, Helsinki and Oslo may be major cities within the Nordic countries but they are B-cities which mean that they are just like B-listed celebrities. If you want to explore a Nordic city as part of your honeymoon – why would you than visit a second rate city comparable to Manchester? Do you want your relationship to end up in divorce? I wrote that Copenhagen is a good alternative just because it is 30 minutes to Malmo by commute train. There are local and regional cities within three hours from Copenhagen like Aarhus, Helsingborg, Kristianstad, Ystad, Lund, Trelleborg, Simrishamn, Landskrona and many other “cute” towns and villages. Set aside that Scania has some beautiful cities, towns and villages in a scenery and climate similar to Cape Town - but we all know that Stockholm is vastly superior to the unsophisticated “Jimmie Akesson – land”- not to mention the high crime rate in Landskrona and Malmo.
What would you choose – Sipping your macchiato made of rare Amazona coffee beans at Mosebacke, just below Stockholms answer to Soho, watching a vibrant city and update your twitter or do you want to sit in some “cute” Scanian village harbor watching the ocean and drinking plain Swedish coffee?
Going to Helsinki and Oslo is not an option. Finland is like the Maine of the Nordic countries. They export timber, cell-phones (used to) candy and children’s books like the Moomin-series. The last one was actually written by an ethnic Swede living in Finland but Finns kind of like claiming Moomin has their own saga because is not like they have invented any internationally famous authors. One thing hilarious with Finland is that they export Viking cruises. You cross the Baltic Sea from Stockholm and get uncontrollable drunk. When you reach Finland you end up not going further than the local pizza house in the harbor. Finns see this as one of their greatest exports. Getting people drunk on a boat and having them for a Pizza-lunch in the Helskini harbor. The food scene in Finland is just lacking everything. They serve you fried pig blood, reindeer and pies - when they are not eating pizza. They even put reindeer on their pizza. If you want an explosive food experience – Helsinki (and Finland in general) is likely the last city you want to visit.
To conclude. Stockholm is an international city and the hub of all things important in Nordic countries – so there should be the place to go.
Last edited by Rozenn; 05-04-2014 at 07:13 AM..
Reason: Trolling
Hey all, my fiancee and I are going to be getting married next July and we've started scoping out possible honeymoon locations. We'd both love to go to Europe but I'm concerned our budget of $5000 isn't going to be enough to do things "properly" so to speak. The $5k is all inclusive so we're talking airfare, hotel, transit, food, etc. etc. We'd love to hit Norway, Sweden, or Finland but I know those are expensive places, as is most of Western Europe. I've also looked at Estonia (Tallinn mainly) due to its close proximity to Helsinki and Stockholm, but anywhere in Europe is honestly fine for us.
Any suggestions are appreciated, as well as any links to travel sites or what-have-you. We have over a year to plan for all this so there's not a huge rush, but I would like to at least try to nail down a location so we can do some preliminary planning, ya know? Thanks!
nowhere!
Sorry but flights will be about $1000 at least.
So before you even get to Europe its a disaster. That is if you want a normal wedding.
Am I not correct? Stockholm and Copenhagen is clearly superior to the Moomin-land when it comes to food. Looking at Guide Michelin we can clearly see that Finland is no country for “foodies”.
Denmark: 15 stars in Guide Michelin
Sweden 11 stars in Guide Michelin
Oslo: 6 stars in Guide Michelin
Finland: 6 stars in Guide Michelin
Finland has things which they should promote. Their general friendly behaviour, low crime, their homogenous and sometimes peculiar culture, the high level of trust in their society, their natural environment, their sauna, their peasant romantic art, their folk-music, their technology, their welfare state, their well-ordered political system, their strong men and women that have endured occupation, war and poverty, their lack of political corruption and many other things. Finland is a great society to live in but is not a world metropolitan. Finland is like the Norse Shire – not being raped yet by the outside world like Sweden, Denmark and Norway. That is how I see Finland. There are a lot of good things in Helsinki but is not a metropolis like Copenhagen or Stockholm. You travel to Finland to “come home” not for vacation.
Last edited by Rozenn; 05-04-2014 at 07:13 AM..
Reason: Orphaned
Am I not correct? Stockholm and Copenhagen is clearly superior to the Moomin-land when it comes to food. Looking at Guide Michelin we can clearly see that Finland is no country for “foodies”.
No, I think not. If Stockholm City has 890,000 people on 187 km2 and Helsinki 615,000 on 210 km2, as a tourist I don't think Stockholm feels much more like a metropolis. In the end, both are medium sized cities. As a proud Helsinki native myself and who have visited Stockholm around 30, maybe 40 times, I really don't see a huge difference in the cities "spirits". Both will feel equally exotic for an American. And your perception of Helsinki being a dull small town is just false. The city is as vibrant as Stockholm. In history Sweden and Stockholm has the upper hand yes, but you don't see that on the street. But I can say hand on heart that the rude busy Helsinki resident is definitely more friendly than the rude busy Stockholm resident. Helsinki is also for the size quite a popular tourist destination, so they seem to disagree with you. And no, they aren't all Russians, last year only 16% were.
For cuisine, you mentioned reindeer. That is actually a very lucrative and appreciated ingredient and internationally regognized. Other delicacies like elk or bear are as well. And as 90% of the Finnish cuisine is the same as the Swedish, you're bashing your own cuisine as well. Helsinki has a lot of high-end restaurants that serve excellent food. No, Finland is not only about pizza, döner, karelsk piråg and memma, Finnish cuisine has recently got pretty much praise internationally. As all other Scandinavian food, as the surrounding world thinks Nordic Countries = Scandinavia, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Nothing wrong with Stockholm, it's the passive-aggressive rude and bashing tone of yours I don't like.
Last edited by Rozenn; 05-04-2014 at 07:14 AM..
Reason: Off topic
1. Stockholm (Alpha-)
2. Copenhagen (Beta+)
3. Helsinki (Beta)
4. Oslo (Beta)
5. Gothenburg (Gamma-)
6. Malmo (Gamma-)
7. Aarhus (Sufficiency)
8. ReykjavÃk (Sufficiency)
This is off-topic but something tells me you are trying to misrepresent what the GaWC measures. That ranking's criteria is entirely based on how interconnected a city's professional offices (accounting, consulting, marketing, law offices, etc) are with other world cities. It says absolutely nothing about culture, cosmopolitanism or vibrancy, otherwise Atlanta wouldn't be on par with Barcelona, 4 notches above St. Petersburg. Would you visit Luxembourg before Strasbourg, given that the former is 6 notches above the latter?
I think we can all agree that the majority of tourists would visit Stockholm before Helsinki but the reason has nothing to do with the GaWC list. I know people who loved both places and others who were bored to death with either.
No, I think not. If Stockholm City has 890,000 people on 187 km2 and Helsinki 615,000 on 210 km2, as a tourist I don't think Stockholm feels much more like a metropolis. In the end, both are medium sized cities. As a proud Helsinki native myself and who have visited Stockholm around 30, maybe 40 times, I really don't see a huge difference in the cities "spirits". Both will feel equally exotic for an American. And your perception of Helsinki being a dull small town is just false. The city is as vibrant as Stockholm. In history Sweden and Stockholm has the upper hand yes, but you don't see that on the street. But I can say hand on heart that the rude busy Helsinki resident is definitely more friendly than the rude busy Stockholm resident. Helsinki is also for the size quite a popular tourist destination, so they seem to disagree with you. And no, they aren't all Russians, last year only 16% were.
For cuisine, you mentioned reindeer. That is actually a very lucrative and appreciated ingredient and internationally regognized. Other delicacies like elk or bear are as well. And as 90% of the Finnish cuisine is the same as the Swedish, you're bashing your own cuisine as well. Helsinki has a lot of high-end restaurants that serve excellent food. No, Finland is not only about pizza, döner, karelsk piråg and memma, Finnish cuisine has recently got pretty much praise internationally. As all other Scandinavian food, as the surrounding world thinks Nordic Countries = Scandinavia, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Nothing wrong with Stockholm, it's the passive-aggressive rude and bashing tone of yours I don't like.
If we use your specifications Helsinki has a density of 2930km2 and Stockholm has a density of 4760. The inner city of Stockholm has a population of 320 000 people in 48km2. Of these 48km2 is 27,7km2. Stockholm inner city is actually pushing 17 000 people/km2. That is impressive stats for a city with little more than 900 000 (2014) and a metro of 2.1 million people. Stockholm (proper) is the 21th largest city in the European Union. Helsinki stands at place at 38th. Stockholm has a significant larger Metro station. The Stockholm Metro has 7 lines with 100 stations including 53 subway stations. Stockholm Metro has 320 million riders a year. That is by the way 90 million more than Chicago L. Helsinki has 2 lines and 17 stations with 7 stations below ground. Helsinki had 62 million riders (2012). I cannot see anything that would make Helsinki in par with Stockholm other than you may have a higher metropolitan density but than one has to mention that within Stockholm County there are forest to separate municipalities from each other including that Stockholm County has a massive amount of water. Stockholm would clearly win comparing metropolitan areas. I have mentioned before that Sweden was ranked by GaWC A-listed city and Helsinki is a B-listed city when it comes to global pattern.
When it comes to culture we all know that Stockholm kick ass. Stockholm has plenty of internationally recognized museums. Among the art museums you find National Museum of Fine Art, Museum of Far Eastern Antiquities and Museum of Modern Art. These are considered to hold great collections. Among the historical museums you find Skansen (1.4 million visitors a year), Vasa Museum (1, 3 million visitors a year) and 10-15 of others with high international ranking sand hundreds of thousands of visitors a year each. The most visted museum in Helsinki is Ateneum Art Museum with just 224 000 visitors in 2010. Our Museum of Modern art had 580 000 visitors in 2010. Your most visited museum of 2010 would come at eighth or ninth place in Stockholm. Sweden has way more tourists than Finland and most of them go to Stockholm. According to the World Bank Sweden had over 5 million visitors in 2011. Finland had only 4.2 million visitors. In 2012/2013 Sweden lost some and Finland gained some but the numbers stand historically the same. I have to say that Finland in general does not stand a chance and Stockholm Vs Helsinki is just futile. We just outperform you in every category. I do not get why you not just admit that Helsinki is second to Stockholm. I admit that Stockholm is second to a lot of cities but in the Nordic countries Stockholm is number one. I like Chicago more than New York but comparing them objectively New York is number one by a land slid. An honest question – what does Helsinki has which Stockholm do not accept for lower crime, better schools and a less ethnically diverse population?
Yes, Im passive that is part of being me.
Last edited by Rozenn; 05-04-2014 at 07:15 AM..
Reason: Orphaned
This is off-topic but something tells me you are trying to misrepresent what the GaWC measures. That ranking's criteria is entirely based on how interconnected a city's professional offices (accounting, consulting, marketing, law offices, etc) are with other world cities. It says absolutely nothing about culture, cosmopolitanism or vibrancy, otherwise Atlanta wouldn't be on par with Barcelona, 4 notches above St. Petersburg. Would you visit Luxembourg before Strasbourg, given that the former is 6 notches above the latter?
I think we can all agree that the majority of tourists would visit Stockholm before Helsinki but the reason has nothing to do with the GaWC list. I know people who loved both places and others who were bored to death with either.
Yeah it is about interaction with the world outside and clearly Stockholm is an international hub. I agree it does not say much about vibrancy and other things that makes a big city. I have mentioned it before I some other thread. It was just one of many examples why Stockholm performs better than Helsinki and would be a much better city for an American tourist to visit. It is not like I dislike Helsinki I just raise an important point for an American. If you want to experience the Nordic countries – which city would be the best to start with? Well, I would go for Stockholm or Copenhagen. In later trips I think Helsinki (which may be more exotic) or even more exotic Reykjavik would be an option. One does not need to have a city-semester.
A lot of people visit Northern Finland, Sweden and Norway (clearly Norway is the coolest option) to have glimpse on the Arctic. All Nordic countries offer something but I’m sadly not clear off what Finland offer that cannot be found in Sweden. Finland stretch further north but if you want to see the arctic one would choose Norway that goes higher up. When it comes to cities I have proved that Stockholm and Copenhagen is much more exciting than Finland – if you are not into “looking at a Finns”. If are in fact into studying a ethnically homogenous Nordic country – Iceland is by far the best choice and you get the some of the arctic stuff you get in Northern Norway. I cannot see any big reason to go to Finland as a tourist. They have sadly nothing to offer that cannot be found in Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Reykjavik. If one wants a cheap semester I would rather go to the Baltic States but Finland does not even offer something cheap. They only offer second rate attractions and Moose pizza. Finland is like pointless tourist country but a great country to live in.
Last edited by Sconesforme; 05-03-2014 at 05:53 PM..
Yeah it is about interaction with the world outside and clearly Stockholm is an international hub. I agree it does not say much about vibrancy and other things that makes a big city. I have mentioned it before I some other thread. It was just one of many examples why Stockholm performs better than Helsinki and would be a much better city for an American tourist to visit. It is not like I dislike Helsinki I just raise an important point for an American. If you want to experience the Nordic countries – which city would be the best to start with? Well, I would go for Stockholm or Copenhagen. In later trips I think Helsinki (which may be more exotic) or even more exotic Reykjavik would be an option. One does not need to have a city-semester.
All I say is there is a problem with the logic of the bolded sentence above. If an American tourist wants "an international hub in Europe" (regardless of whether the GaWC list is a good measure of that) he/she will go to London or Amsterdam; Scandinavia will likely be off the radar. If an American tourist is interested in Scandinavia, "Stockholm is more international" will not convince him/her to go there instead of Helsinki -- the fact that he/she is interested in Scandinavia is evidence that he/she is looking for something else. Your reference to Reykjavik is a good example of that -- if you're looking into Iceland that's because you want something different, "exotic", even though Reykjavik is a heck of a lot less cosmopolitan than Miami or Boston.
Maybe I'm biased -- I am going to Tallinn for work in a few weeks, and after that I will spend a week in St. Petersburg. I picked that city because of its historical significance, and because I am looking for something different. Some of my colleagues will do Finland instead. Somehow I doubt either of us picked either place because they are international hubs..
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