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The British people make their choice, and it was a proper and democratic process. Boris Johnson did nothing wrong - as a politician he speaks for the people he represents as well as his own ideology. Why are so many people angry and trying to force their own ideas on others?
Do you guys even understand what EU really is and how is works before jumping on with all the "Racism" "anti-globalization" criticism?
In theory, EU expect to be a super-national organization above each nations. The UK has its right not to participate a political union. Doesn't it?
In practice, EU is not working so well so far, so the UK has its reason to be suspicious.
I hope EU will work fine, but let's give the UK the right it deserves not to be part of it, shall we?
My bitterness stems from that the EU needs a reform, and as a stong member I would've hoped Britain would've been a part of that instead of deserting. Also my country lost one of it's most important allies, now we have to balance between Germany and France.
I think the EU should temporarily step back on the integration process for a decade or two, and we just lost the strongest anti-integration leaning member.
And the vote were so differing between generations. Young people in my age voted overwhealmingly to remain, while the baby-boomers made their last selfish stand by voting to leave.
Finally, the Brexit campaign has been ugly, with all "f*ck Europe" and "no more Polish vermin" kind of smearing, even harrassing on the street.
My bitterness stems from that the EU needs a reform, and as a stong member I would've hoped Britain would've been a part of that instead of deserting. Also my country lost one of it's most important allies, now we have to balance between Germany and France.
I think the EU should temporarily step back on the integration process for a decade or two, and we just lost the strongest anti-integration leaning member.
And the vote were so differing between generations. Young people in my age voted overwhealmingly to remain, while the baby-boomers made their last selfish stand by voting to leave.
Finally, the Brexit campaign has been ugly, with all "f*ck Europe" and "no more Polish vermin" kind of smearing, even harrassing on the street.
Would you show me where the Brexit campaign ever said "f*ck Europe" or "no more Polish vermin"? I don't believe that was part of their manifesto!? I think you need to read Botticelli's excellent post again and perhaps take a leaf out of his/her book.
Would you show me where the Brexit campaign ever said "f*ck Europe" or "no more Polish vermin"? I don't believe that was part of their manifesto!? I think you need to read Botticelli's excellent post again and perhaps take a leaf out of his/her book.
My bitterness stems from that the EU needs a reform, and as a stong member I would've hoped Britain would've been a part of that instead of deserting. Also my country lost one of it's most important allies, now we have to balance between Germany and France.
I think the EU should temporarily step back on the integration process for a decade or two, and we just lost the strongest anti-integration leaning member.
And the vote were so differing between generations. Young people in my age voted overwhealmingly to remain, while the baby-boomers made their last selfish stand by voting to leave.
Finally, the Brexit campaign has been ugly, with all "f*ck Europe" and "no more Polish vermin" kind of smearing, even harrassing on the street.
I agree with some of your points but not others.
The UK was one foot out of the union to begin with. The UK historically always cared more about balancing of powers on the continent than being a part of it, not to mention being a fervent supporter of "integration". Oftentimes, its vision as a sea power is very different from continental Europe. Its economic model and legal system are different from Europe as well. So for me, it is very reasonable for the UK to say "now it is going so far and not what I have signed for" and decide to quit. Do you want to be on board of a ship that sails to a destination you have no intention to go?
I think the EU is a fantastic project and I really hope it will work out, because it will avoid so many stupid wars in the future, not to mention provide so much more freedom and prosperity for people of the member states. But if the UK has a different view, it has the right to go. It is not able to change the direction the EU is going. It is not deserting. People have different dreams shouldn't live together pretending it will finally work out, should they?
I agree the EU should take a step back on the integration process. It is going too fast. And most Europeans don't even understand it any more.
More young people voting against Brexit doesn't mean anything. If at all, it could mean young voters who have no experience living during a non-EU era are afraid of what the UK will be without the EU membership, and what do you expect a 21 year old to know about the EU? They think it means "European integration" "globalization", some even think leaving means leaving Europe and not trading any more. If you say babyboomers "selfishly voted "out", then I say the youngsters ignorantly voted "yes".
And why London voted yes? because they are more sophisticated? NO, of course bankers and lawyers want to say in the EU because it benefits them professionally. Of course rich people prefer staying because, the financial market doesn't like surprises (just look at the stock market). They voted "yes" because they care about their own wealth, that's all.
The Brexit campaign has been ugly... funny you mention that. For the past half a year, 95% of the media is in favour of remaining, and every day one article after anther they try to scare people what horrible consequence they will see if they vote no, and I seldom see anything that objectively explains to the people what EU really does, how it works and what leaving or remaining means for the country. They are even comparing Boris Johnson to Trump, I mean, what the hell? They have nothing in common! I am not European, but I find the pro-EU campaign pretty ugly and dishonest as well.
AGAIN, I think the EU is a great experiment, and I really hope it succeeds (just like China was able to unit itself 2000 years ago). But a leave vs remain decision should be based on full knowledge and cost-benefit analysis for the British people, not some vague ideology about "globalization" or "integration". I bet the vast majority of people don't really understand what EU is, which is why so many are outraged that the US decides to leave.
It exists everywhere. Many Americans and Canadians ask the Chinese to go back where you come from every day. Even if they don't say it loud, many deeply hope so.
But does that represents the "leave campaign"? You talks as if the leader of UKIP wrote that.
More young people voting against Brexit doesn't mean anything. If at all, it could mean young voters who have no experience living during a non-EU era are afraid of what the UK will be without the EU membership, and what do you expect a 21 year old to know about the EU? They think it means "European integration" "globalization", some even think leaving means leaving Europe and not trading any more. If you say babyboomers "selfishly voted "out", then I say the youngsters ignorantly voted "yes".
The people who experienced the world pre 1973 are remembering a world which won't come back.
And a 21-year old may well know more about the EU than a 60-year old.
The UK was one foot out of the union to begin with. The UK historically always cared more about balancing of powers on the continent than being a part of it, not to mention being a fervent supporter of "integration". Oftentimes, its vision as a sea power is very different from continental Europe. Its economic model and legal system are different from Europe as well. So for me, it is very reasonable for the UK to say "now it is going so far and not what I have signed for" and decide to quit. Do you want to be on board of a ship that sails to a destination you have no intention to go?
I think the EU is a fantastic project and I really hope it will work out, because it will avoid so many stupid wars in the future, not to mention provide so much more freedom and prosperity for people of the member states. But if the UK has a different view, it has the right to go. It is not able to change the direction the EU is going. It is not deserting. People have different dreams shouldn't live together pretending it will finally work out, should they?
I agree the EU should take a step back on the integration process. It is going too fast. And most Europeans don't even understand it any more.
More young people voting against Brexit doesn't mean anything. If at all, it could mean young voters who have no experience living during a non-EU era are afraid of what the UK will be without the EU membership, and what do you expect a 21 year old to know about the EU? They think it means "European integration" "globalization", some even think leaving means leaving Europe and not trading any more. If you say babyboomers "selfishly voted "out", then I say the youngsters ignorantly voted "yes".
And why London voted yes? because they are more sophisticated? NO, of course bankers and lawyers want to say in the EU because it benefits them professionally. Of course rich people prefer staying because, the financial market doesn't like surprises (just look at the stock market). They voted "yes" because they care about their own wealth, that's all.
The Brexit campaign has been ugly... funny you mention that. For the past half a year, 95% of the media is in favour of remaining, and every day one article after anther they try to scare people what horrible consequence they will see if they vote no, and I seldom see anything that objectively explains to the people what EU really does, how it works and what leaving or remaining means for the country. They are even comparing Boris Johnson to Trump, I mean, what the hell? They have nothing in common! I am not European, but I find the pro-EU campaign pretty ugly and dishonest as well.
AGAIN, I think the EU is a great experiment, and I really hope it succeeds (just like China was able to unit itself 2000 years ago). But a leave vs remain decision should be based on full knowledge and cost-benefit analysis for the British people, not some vague ideology about "globalization" or "integration". I bet the vast majority of people don't really understand what EU is, which is why so many are outraged that the US decides to leave.
I wish I could rep you multiple times, your posts are well thought out, sensible and calm - I think you should campaign to be the next Prime Minister, I would vote for you! Voting out of Europe has NOTHING to do with disliking Europeans, or wanting to cut yourself off from the rest of the world, 52% of Britons just wanted to go down a different political route that's all. There has always been xenophonic bigots (and unfortunately always will be) but its a tiny percentage of the population (and always will be) and it doesn't reflect Britain as a whole. As somebody living here (and in a very multicultural area too) I can promise you there is no anarchy on the streets, no racist gangs roaming around, no hatred. Anybody caught who is stupid enough to come out with any sort of xenophobic or racist drivel should and will be punished.
The people who experienced the world pre 1973 are remembering a world which won't come back.
And a 21-year old may well know more about the EU than a 60-year old.
Who said anything about going back to pre 1973? I believe the Norwegians and the Swiss (among others) have perfectly well managed good governments operating outside the EU? How will Britain do outside the EU? Nobody knows for sure, it might or might not do the economy harm, however British people decided that they would like to govern themselves it doesn't mean they 'dislike' Europeans or even the EU, some of the reactions of some of the other Europeans is strange its almost like they believe the British have declared war or something. There are plenty of other Europeans in other EU countries that would also like to leave the EU, its simply not for everyone, at the end of the day we should all celebrate that in Europe democracy is alive and well and that unlike in 'some' other parts of the world we don't all immediately take up arms the moment a democratic political decision doesn't go the way we would have liked.
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