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Celtic identity was fused in books such as the Mabinogion, a tradition the church carried on with Celtic-Christian crosses. The Celt is more real than imagined, the Celtic world always slipping from tangible to dream
Keltoi was a name the Classical world gave them they had their own tribal names.
Celtic Druids use to come from continental Europe to learn in Britain so we can sort of consider it an important sacred place for celts.
My favourite Celtic country is Ireland which the welsh refer to as the otherworld there's a mysticism in Ireland.
Celtic hotspots are stronger in certain areas rather than a particular country. Cumbria is one for me, as is Avebury in Wiltshire . The strongest is Anglesey, or Mona, an incredible place.
Celtic hotspots are stronger in certain areas rather than a particular country. Cumbria is one for me, as is Avebury in Wiltshire . The strongest is Anglesey, or Mona, an incredible place.
Sure Celtic genes are stronger westwards and this is fact confirmed by studies. When comparing the genetic map of Britian and the 600 A.D. map of Britain.
Sure Celtic genes are stronger westwards and this is fact confirmed by studies. When comparing the genetic map of Britian and the 600 A.D. map of Britain.
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Last edited by Star10101; 01-03-2017 at 04:25 PM..
Reason: Never mind/can't be arsed...
Ball beaker was originated in Portugal and Spain, it seems it was R1B and was just a culture possibly originating in North Africa. As a culture, it became multiradial,,,a culture, I don't see the relationships with Ireland...at that time Ireland was remote and only fanous for the megalithic culture. Celt culture were adopted by almost every ethnicity in western Europe, every ethnicity
There is a lot of discussion on where Bell Beaker originated and the new Bell Beaker paper will have more information including ancient dna. Quite a few people think that the full Bell Beaker package "including Steppe ancestry and R1b" will not be found in ancient samples from Portugal. This is what the paper will answer.
It is already known that the Rathlin men that were sampled in Ireland were the same as German Bell Beakers and they had a significant "Steppe component and R1b" and that R1b was L21 like the vast majority of present day Irishmen. So there is already a disconnection there with Bell Beaker originating in Portugal. When this big Bell Beaker paper is released (they have tested ancient dna) hopefully it will put an end to all the speculation on where Bell Beaker originated.
There has already been a paper released on Bell Beaker mtdna which made the point p 148 "Genetic evidence available so far can therefore dismiss an Iberian origin of the Bell Beaker phenomenon with demic distribution into Central Europe – at least on mitochondrial level; one will have to await what Y-chromosomal or autosomal ancient DNA data will show. Anyway, one should not forget that one of these theories may very well be true for the distribution of the pottery itself, the incision style or any other archaeological assemblage via acculturation phenomena".
This is where genetics is coming to the fore. It is answering all these questions about the populating of Europe and beyond. R1b is a Steppe marker and they won't find it in ancient samples from Portugal and Spain and North Africa unless it is V88 which is much further up the tree than the R1b subclades present in the majority of Europeans today and the ones found in Yamnaya. You need to link some evidence for your statement as this goes against everything that is known.
The Bell Beaker paper will answer these questions but I think for people that have had an interest in this subject people can make a pretty good educated guess on how it will pan out.
Celtic hotspots are stronger in certain areas rather than a particular country. Cumbria is one for me, as is Avebury in Wiltshire . The strongest is Anglesey, or Mona, an incredible place.
Yes Cumbria was Celtic. This from the Celtic League "Celtic was reported in Cumbria in England as late as the 14th century and even into the 20th century if one accepts the evidence of shepherds using Celtic prime numbers to count their sheep." So much later than any Celtic spoken on the Continent with the exception of Breton.
You are mixing apples and pears in a similar way to ginger malkosian.
Bell beaker culture was born in Portugal, near the Tajo River, 900 years afterwards appeared in Germany. They were r1b, not aryans and probably the creators had curly hair. No, no ginger, no beer, NO CELTIC, NOTHING TO DO WITH CELTIC.
Ball Beaker - 2900-2500 AD
Classical Celt Culture - 1200-300 AD
Ball beaker culture was multi-ethnic and multifocal, it seems that was based on r1b was was shared by hundreds of groups.
By the way, the relation of Spain, Germany, Italy and France with historial Celts, real celts, is very old.
You are mixing apples and pears in a similar way to ginger malkosian.
Bell beaker culture was born in Portugal, near the Tajo River, 900 years afterwards appeared in Germany. They were r1b, not aryans and probably the creators had curly hair. No, no ginger, no beer, NO CELTIC, NOTHING TO DO WITH CELTIC.
Ball Beaker - 2900-2500 AD
Classical Celt Culture - 1200-300 AD
Ball beaker culture was multi-ethnic and multifocal, it seems that was based on r1b was was shared by hundreds of groups.
By the way, the relation of Spain, Germany, Italy and France with historial Celts, real celts, is very old.
Your comment about them being R1b is not correct because they haven't released any information on ancient Bell Beaker in Portugal yet. They won't be R1b and it has nothing to do with Aryans. You are just bringing that into a topic for your own reasons perhaps to divert the topic. The Bell Beaker culture is associated with Celtic culture. They are thought by many to be Proto-Celtic. These are the people that Celtic culture grew out of. As I've said in my previous post the paper on Bell Beaker will have ancient dna and will hopefully explain if Bell Beaker in Portugal have a genetic relationship with Central European Bell Beaker. My personal opinion from what I've seen is no they will be different but I'm awaiting that information to come out to clarify this. The previous paper on mtdna already says this. We also know that R1b in Europe was spread from East to West and has a Steppe component so it is not too difficult to guess what this paper will show. It isn't going to diverge from what is already known although they do say there are some surprises.
You are saying they were R1b when this doesn't look likely at all. The Central European Bell Beakers are R1b because they have a Steppe component. No ancient R1b has been found in Portugal because as we now know R1b came from the East and carried with it that Steppe ancestry. It is a Bronze Age marker and hasn't been found in Neolithic Europe.
Just a little bit of logic as well. All R1b has the most diversity the further east you go. Places like Spain are overwhelmingly lower down the subclade tree and majority DF27. They are not a place of origin. So like all of Western Europe the R1b there is relatively recent.
But you are citing speculation, bell beaker is not associated with Celtic Culture. Too remote, there might be a remote link, as there might be a remote link with..say, the Roman or Tartessos culture.
Proto-Celtic? Anything could be proto-celtic.
Central European bell beakers are 800 years newer.
You are back into UFOLOGY and steppe components, R1b might have come from Russia, but they came and went, there were rebuffs and again, Bell Beaker culture was born in nowdays Portugal. They are as related to Celtic culture as to any other European culture, more than 1000 years difference. Don't read those romantic tabloids prepared for people like Ginger, they think that Napoleon is a Roman general and that France and Germany are just the same.
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