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I suspect the majority of criminals in Norway are residents of its largest city, Oslo. Oslo is hardly 94% culturally Norwegian. More like 75% AND PLUMMETING.
Suspect it or do you know it? Have you crunched the numbers? Sounds like you are blaming all crime on transplants.
Suffice it to say, Norway is a Scandinavian country. The 5 or so Scandinavian countries have a culture of unity, cooperation, and conformity that even other European countries do not approach. Consequently, any comparison to the US or the UK is a slippery slope at best.
And why bother? I ask again, why does noone advocate Somalia emulating Norway? What about Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe, or even China? If Norway can teach democratic and prosperous nations such as America something, surely they have even more to offer others.
Rehabilitation can be a good solution, if it's done properly.
Here in Belgium (and some other countries in Europe too), the rehabilitation of prisoners isn't always effective. But effective rehabilitation can be the target.
It just can't be THE solution to imprison people for 30-40 years/rest of their lives. It is expensive, inadequate and not human.
And I agree also with the others, what they write about inequality.
Compare inequality with crime: they are linked to eachother.
Low inequality, low crime: Slovenia, Finland
High inequality, high crime: Brazil, South-Africa.
Rehabilitation can be a good solution, if it's done properly.
Here in Belgium (and some other countries in Europe too), the rehabilitation of prisoners isn't always effective. But effective rehabilitation can be the target.
It just can't be THE solution to imprison people for 30-40 years/rest of their lives. It is expensive, inadequate and not human.
And I agree also with the others, what they write about inequality.
Compare inequality with crime: they are linked to eachother.
Low inequality, low crime: Slovenia, Finland
High inequality, high crime: Brazil, South-Africa.
Well you have hit on something vital with regards to the notion of Inequality. As I have alluded, there is probably not a great deal of difference culturally, economically or otherwise amongst Norwegians. Norway is a very static society.
Contrast that with the USA. America borders the Third World while Norway is about as far away from it as can be. The result is that at any give time, the USA absorbs millions of people who do not possess high educational levels, high skill levels, or profound economic purchasing power. That creates the Inequality you speak of, not a caste system, class system, sense of cruelty, racism or otherwise. America generally welcomes these people, more or less. That is our sense of egalitarianism and opportunity- "We made it here, so can you, so come and try." And of course it also brings with it problems. I dare say, if Norway (or Belgium) directly- directly bordered a country like Mexico, you and I would not be having this conversation.
And of course, America has a legacy of slavery and segregation to deal with. Norway does not and that is to her credit. Of course, many other countries engaged in this same slavery, but American is the only one who did it on her home soil rather than colonies that could be cast off later. If Norway had such a legacy to deal with, again, we would not be having this conversation.
As we like to say, its comparing Apples to Oranges.
And the fact of the matter is prison is not for rehabilitation. Its for punishment. Last year, two men and a women murdered some people I knew my whole life- for a computer. I do not wish them to be rehabilitated. I honestly do not see how they could be. I want them locked away forever to pay for what they did. And so they are.
Suspect it or do you know it? Have you crunched the numbers? Sounds like you are blaming all crime on transplants.
Suffice it to say, Norway is a Scandinavian country. The 5 or so Scandinavian countries have a culture of unity, cooperation, and conformity that even other European countries do not approach. Consequently, any comparison to the US or the UK is a slippery slope at best.
And why bother? I ask again, why does noone advocate Somalia emulating Norway? What about Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe, or even China? If Norway can teach democratic and prosperous nations such as America something, surely they have even more to offer others.
That's kind of a straw man argument. Who says those other countries have nothing to learn from Norway?
Norwegians work and volunteer in a lot of other countries. Norwegians, along with other Scandinavians, donate heavily to 3rd world causes.
That's kind of a straw man argument. Who says those other countries have nothing to learn from Norway?
Norwegians work and volunteer in a lot of other countries. Norwegians, along with other Scandinavians, donate heavily to 3rd world causes.
I think you are misunderstanding my statements.
There are always various subjects and discussion which come down to "America is better/worse than [Insert European Country]". Now they are interesting enough, but ultimately they are kind of specious if not absurd. Its like comparing the Rolling Stones to the Beatles. You can make an argument that one is better than the other but it ultimately comes down to intangible elements and personal taste.
Both America and Norway are wealthy, democratic countries. Nobody is going to deny that and be taken seriously. So in response to what I consider a silly argument, I often ask why nobody touts "Norway as better than [Insert Poorly Run Country]". Why waste time comparing two gems when there are numerous examples of countries that really need transformation? The question everyone should be asking is why countries like Zimbabwe, Saudia Arabia, Congo, Cuba, North Korea, and even Russia don't learn from Norway, Sweden, Canada, Italy, etc. Where would you rather live?
Anyway, I am off topic, but that is what I meant. Not criticizing Norway at all.
There are always various subjects and discussion which come down to "America is better/worse than [Insert European Country]". Now they are interesting enough, but ultimately they are kind of specious if not absurd. Its like comparing the Rolling Stones to the Beatles. You can make an argument that one is better than the other but it ultimately comes down to intangible elements and personal taste.
Both America and Norway are wealthy, democratic countries. Nobody is going to deny that and be taken seriously. So in response to what I consider a silly argument, I often ask why nobody touts "Norway as better than [Insert Poorly Run Country]". Why waste time comparing two gems when there are numerous examples of countries that really need transformation? The question everyone should be asking is why countries like Zimbabwe, Saudia Arabia, Congo, Cuba, North Korea, and even Russia don't learn from Norway, Sweden, Canada, Italy, etc. Where would you rather live?
Anyway, I am off topic, but that is what I meant. Not criticizing Norway at all.
I agree 100%! I think people in those countries from time to tmie do have those conversations. The whole purpouse of human existence is to try to be better. Zimbabwe should aspire to be just as good as Scandinavian countries just as much as the U.S. should ... even if countries like the U.S. are probably closer to that.
I know Scandinavia isn't perfect, but i truly believe those societies are human evolution at it's best.
The reason the U.S. is often compared to Scandinavia and all of Europe is because, unbelievably so, the standard of living for the average person in Europe is better. It's hard for the world to wrap it's mind around the fact that, while we are a 'wealthy' nation, so many of our people live in poverty and die of very treatable diseases. For being the wealthy, developed, superpower that America is, the average citizen in America could only dream of living a European lifestyle. Americans counter with, "unemployment in Europe is higher"... but don't realize how comprehensive unemployment compensation is in Europe. An unemployed person in Europe is ten times better off than an unemployed person in America. No one goes broke when they come down with an uncurable illness in Europe,... but in America it's one of the main sources of bankrupcy. Are there virtues to the American economy,... the American way of doing business. Are there virtues in our healthcare system? In our prison systems? Absolutely... but it does come at the cost of a diminshed standard of living for the average citizen.
Inequality plays an important role, but I don't believe it's a simple "more income inequality, less crime." Belarus and Hungary have plenty of crime yet have low income inequality. I think the reverse is rarer, but occurs in a few cases. Still poverty rate and unemployment are significant. As is the percent of unmarried males under age 30. Pretty often the more you have of that group the more crime you have. I think that's part of why the Palestinians are so unstable, they have a high amount of unemployed and unmarried young men. So those guys have "nothing to lose", comparatively speaking. (I believe even the wealthier Arab nations have a relatively high amount of young men without wives or jobs)
On prisons I don't think we should go as far as Norway, but I do think we should try to make prisons safer and cleaner. However I think some people should be kept out of society for life and I'm largely for three-strikes laws provided each strike has to be a violent felony. (Three drug arrests I don't think should necessarily do it)
Interestingly though recidivism is misunderstood in the US. When I looked up the figures the group most likely to re-offend was, I think, car thieves. Among violent criminals those who commit aggravated assault were the most likely to re-offend. So possibly we should focus more on rehabilitating, or when that fails locking away, those two groups. Sociopathic and psychopathic criminals should, in many to most cases, be jailed or institutionalized for life as they have a consistent inability to obey laws or care about whether they harm others. Interestingly some evidence I've read indicates psychopaths, perhaps because they are superficially charming (although not the cool evil geniuses of TV), are more likely to get released rather than less.
Well you have hit on something vital with regards to the notion of Inequality. As I have alluded, there is probably not a great deal of difference culturally, economically or otherwise amongst Norwegians. Norway is a very static society.
Contrast that with the USA. America borders the Third World while Norway is about as far away from it as can be.
The term "Third World" is obsolete as it refers to political allegiances during the Cold War.
If you're talking about middle and low income countries being near rich countries, Norway isn't THAT far away from Russia or the Baltic States which all have high crime rates. Russia has a high Gini coefficient.
"The cells rival well-appointed college dorm rooms, with their flat-screen TVs and minifridges. Designers chose long vertical windows for the rooms because they let in more sunlight. There are no bars. Every 10 to 12 cells share a living room and kitchen. With their stainless-steel countertops, wraparound sofas and birch-colored coffee tables, they resemble Ikea showrooms."
If American prisons had those amenities, the crime rate would go up 1000% overnight.
I agree 100%! I think people in those countries from time to tmie do have those conversations. The whole purpouse of human existence is to try to be better. Zimbabwe should aspire to be just as good as Scandinavian countries just as much as the U.S. should ... even if countries like the U.S. are probably closer to that.
I know Scandinavia isn't perfect, but i truly believe those societies are human evolution at it's best.
The reason the U.S. is often compared to Scandinavia and all of Europe is because, unbelievably so, the standard of living for the average person in Europe is better. It's hard for the world to wrap it's mind around the fact that, while we are a 'wealthy' nation, so many of our people live in poverty and die of very treatable diseases. For being the wealthy, developed, superpower that America is, the average citizen in America could only dream of living a European lifestyle. Americans counter with, "unemployment in Europe is higher"... but don't realize how comprehensive unemployment compensation is in Europe. An unemployed person in Europe is ten times better off than an unemployed person in America. No one goes broke when they come down with an uncurable illness in Europe,... but in America it's one of the main sources of bankrupcy. Are there virtues to the American economy,... the American way of doing business. Are there virtues in our healthcare system? In our prison systems? Absolutely... but it does come at the cost of a diminshed standard of living for the average citizen.
I disagree for a myriad of reasons. In America there is much less constraint on how far you can rise or how low you can fall. It is much more risky, but at the same time Americans have much more economic mobility then citizens in Nordic countries. In the end if you are risk averse and desire a comfortable life where you will not have to work all that hard to get by Nordic countries are great. You will find it very hard to get very wealthy there but at the same time it will also be difficult to become very poor. On the other hand if you are willing to work hard and risk it all you have a much better chance at getting wealthy in the US. The flip side of that is you also are more likely to end up in poverty as well.
As such I do not think one place is that more advanced, and which is more desirable is a simple matter of preference. Sure if you are a poor or working class American Europe can seem like a dream. If you are wealthy or upper middle class, however, the tax rates are a nightmare...From, which my Swedish Great Uncle, fled.
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