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Old 11-22-2016, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Iceland
876 posts, read 1,002,558 times
Reputation: 1018

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Ok, what is it that most people think about when they think about bodybuilding or weight training? For many that would be big muscles. But in my case the first thing that pops up in my mind are shoulder injuries.

And the reason is how most lifters train their chests and shoulders.

Simply put, modern bodybuilding has given people extremely distorted views on how to lift responsibly, with most lifters merely doing whatever will give them the most vanity muscle regardless of all other factors such as safety. And by far the worst example of this is how most people perform pressing movements. Or heck, even just the whole concept of isolating chest and shoulders specifically for that matter.

Simply put, you are not suppose to use your pecs and shoulder muscles as primary movers when performing a press. YOUR TRICEPS are suppose to be the main working muscle during presses, with your pecs and shoulder muscles playing a secondary assistance role. That means keeping elbows heavily tucked in with a rather narrow grip (neutral rather than a overhand grip, if possible), and not lifting/pressing the weight too close to your upper chest.

I can already imagine all the bench warriors screaming in protest. "But if you do that you will activate more triceps and less chest! I wunt to train mah chezts for zem gainz brah!!!!". Yes, it's true that keeping elbows less tucked while using a somewhat wider grip will activate more chest, but that doesn't mean it's actually good for your shoulder health. Please understand that the purpose of bodybuilding (which is where this whole idea comes from in the first place) isn't fitness, IT'S TO BUILD VANITY MUSCLE!!! Will a wider grip with less tucked in elbows and a overhand grip build more chest? Yep. Is it good for you? No. It's bad. Really really bad. Shoulder destroying levels of bad.

But it's not just the bench press that's bad for you (assuming we are talking about the bodybuilder style bench press I mean, close grip elbows tucked in style bench press isn't bad). Chest dips are terrible for the same reason. Dips should ONLY be done while straight with elbows tucked in. Chest dips are possibly an even bigger shoulder killer than the bodybuilder bench press because of the risk of going too deep by mistake. Granted this can also happen with tricep dips, but it's still not as dangerous compared to the chest dip.

Oh, and the overhead press/military press is possibly the dumbest exercise ever created. It offers no advantages over more traditional chest presses in that it's training mostly the same muscles (triceps and the front delts, as well as parts of the chest), except that it also puts your body into a unnatural position (you rotator cuffs are not intended to hold massive amounts of weight directly over your body) and increases the risk of injury for no obvious benefit. This is basically an exercise that was created by old school lifters in the early late 19th/early 20th century before we knew anything about the human body, and I find it stunning people still use it.

All isolation exercises for chest and shoulders are also either pointless or dangerous, largely because as stated above, your chest and shoulders are ASSISTANCE muscles, and aren't suppose to do heavy work on their own. Exercises like chest flys, cable crossovers, peck deck, side raises and so on forth, are all terrible for your shoulders and rotator cuffs. Bodybuilders only do these exercises because they are BODYBUILDING, not for fitness. They don't care about their health, which is why they take huge amounts of drugs and do all of these stupid body destroying exercises. Most bodybuilders go on to develop messed up joints later in life even if they don't suffer serious injuries first.

Now, keep it in mind that this doesn't mean exercises like bench/chest presses or dips are actually bad for you, IF PERFORMED with a closer grip and tucked in elbows to make them more tricep dominant. My point basically, is that the whole concept of using your chest and/or shoulders are the main working muscles during an exercise is by nature stupid and will only lead to shoulder pain and injury.

Which is better? Having a bit more vanity muscle or functional healthy shoulders? You decide.

/End of rant.
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:19 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 6,061,490 times
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Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post


/End of rant.
You will never stop ranting. Cheer up!!
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Chicago
4,745 posts, read 5,581,330 times
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There's nothing wrong with the overhead press. It's a great exercise.
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Iceland
876 posts, read 1,002,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elhelmete View Post
You will never stop ranting. Cheer up!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider View Post
There's nothing wrong with the overhead press. It's a great exercise.
What does it do for you that other chest presses don't do in a safer way?
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:47 AM
 
9,424 posts, read 8,398,112 times
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What website did you copy/paste this from?
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:55 AM
 
2,120 posts, read 1,464,898 times
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Crossfit is a great alternative for traditional bodybuilding work - and works on all body parts including chest and shoulders. Lots of variety and the focus is on fitness, not appearance, although Crossfitters look great!
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:16 AM
 
1,142 posts, read 1,145,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider View Post
There's nothing wrong with the overhead press. It's a great exercise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post



What does it do for you that other chest presses don't do in a safer way?
Overhead presses are for shoulders, not chest.
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Chicago
4,745 posts, read 5,581,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkarin View Post



What does it do for you that other chest presses don't do in a safer way?
The standing overhead press works the shoulders, traps, legs, glutes and core. It also helps to increase my bench press.
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Old 11-22-2016, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Iceland
876 posts, read 1,002,558 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida2014 View Post
What website did you copy/paste this from?
None, I have simply noticed it how problematic the general view most lifters have towards presses in regards to shoulder health.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyshow View Post
Crossfit is a great alternative for traditional bodybuilding work - and works on all body parts including chest and shoulders. Lots of variety and the focus is on fitness, not appearance, although Crossfitters look great!
Omg so many epic fails in this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyshow View Post
Crossfit is a great alternative for traditional bodybuilding work
How can it be a great alternative when it has almost nothing in common with bodybuilding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyshow View Post
and works on all body parts including chest and shoulders.
Oh really it works all body parts? Oh my, now I am sold on crossfit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyshow View Post
the focus is on fitness, not appearance
Looking better is a byproduct of being fit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyshow View Post
although Crossfitters look great!
Most crossfitters I have seen look like ass. Though to be fair you could say the same about most gym goers also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvana07 View Post
Overhead presses are for shoulders, not chest.
A standing barbell overhead press (also known as the military press) works portions of your chest since you bring the bar down to your chest before lifting it up again. It's not being activated as much compared to the bench press, but it's still being used to some degree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider View Post
The standing overhead press works the shoulders, traps, legs, glutes and core. It also helps to increase my bench press.
All of those muscles will be worked anyway even if you don't do any overhead press assuming you have even a half-decent program. Also, shoulders aren't exactly one muscle. They are 3 muscles that are used by different types of exercises: The front delts, the side delts, and the back delts. I am sure they are generally called some other fancier more complicated sounding names but whatever. The overhead press only properly trains the front delt, which is the same shoulder muscle that is used during chest presses. The back delts are used more during pulling exercises like rowing. The other muscles you mentioned are trained anyway when you do squats or deadlifts or some variant thereof.
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Old 11-22-2016, 12:11 PM
 
2,120 posts, read 1,464,898 times
Reputation: 5764
I guess Crossfit is not going to interest you. Okay, how about powerlifting. Powerlifters focus on the three basics. Overhead pressing is not part of the main training - mostly barbell bench work done in pyramids. Powerlifters do focus on triceps work because it improves your bench press. I bet that would be a perfect fit for you and powerlifters have big chests and shoulders.
Powerlifting - yeah! Life is too short to be small.
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