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Quite familiar. Did you read the link I posted earlier? A lot of the seals in Canada are shot not clubbed. Regardless, a strong quick blow in the right spot knocks them out instantly, they don't know what hit them...
I wouldn't call a jacket selfish...without one in cold weather you'll freeze. And I'd prefer to not be using synthetics.
Would you like to make a friendly bet on that? It only happened once in China? And no American or European fur producer would skin an animal alive? All you need to do is tell me which news sources you would believe, since you don't believe a thing any animal rights' group says. BBC, Reuters, WNN, AP, CNN - which one? Or would you consider reports done by law schools?
Once that was made public in China. Knowing China there's probably more of it going on there. Like them putting toxic chemicals in our food and toys, that wasn't one example but a big problem. The attitudes there are far different than here. The fur producers here and in Europe can't afford to have abuse like that happening because Americans and Europeans won't tolerate the sort of abuse of animals (and people) the Chinese will. You get occasional rogue employees in any business but it's an exception not the rule.
Give me what you have, let's go from there...I would question anything that the source of is an animal rights group. The fake (well not fake really but staged) photos PETA has done has made me very skeptical of anything they come up with. I don't trust the HSUS much either (although they haven't come out with as many fakes as PETA, just deceptive and misleading claims).
I'm not a gambling man, I've seen what gambling can do to people.
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The link you usually show and have shown here is a PR site for the fur farms industry. Hardly an unbiased agenda there. What do you think they'd say? They'll sell you 'absolute lies.' I wouldn't believe what they say to promote their agenda any more than you believe what an animal welfare site would say.
If you take two extremes, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle...I'll grant you there's bad people out there who should work nowhere near animals, but what the animal rights groups say is quite far from the truth...the kind of abuse they try to portray as being common, is anything but that.
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Clubbing seals: Baby seals are supposed to be shot, not clubbed. That's the law, isn't it? That certainly doesn't mean that it's done in the legal way. And then you say, "regardless" of whether or not the animals are clubbed, 'one swift [illegal] blow should do it.' Should, but doesn't. Again, want to make a friendly bet that it doesn't work that way you think?
If you mean the baby white seals, they're not hunted. There is more than one type of seal hunted though. Adult seals are sometimes clubbed. One strike will do it, if done right. A gun does make killing them humanely much simpler though and is what I use on my trapline...although currently the seal debate is somewhat a moot point in the U.S. since importing the seal fur is banned so you won't get seal fur anymore unless you buy something from the Alaskan Natives who are allowed to hunt them in limited numbers. A misuse of the laws but nonetheless that's the situation...
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CLOTHING: New-generation synthetic cold-weather clothing is recyclable and has been for decades. It makes good use of the billions of tons of plastics we've already produced. No new production of plastics is needed.
But those new forms are not necessarily the majority of that used and if mixed with other materials typically people won't bother with the work needed to seperate it. With each use plastic degrades in quality so eventually more is needed for certain products. And another problem is so many people don't recycle, and I don't think that could be changed without holding a gun to people's heads, so to speak, to force them to. I'm not sure what can be done about that, it needs to change but it's hard to change habits like that.
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Fur wearing is absolutely unnecessary. It is done out of preference, not need.
Depends on your perspective...I try to avoid synthetics. I think it better to use natural materials. Wool, cotton, flax, etc. isn't always enough. I haven't found anything warmer than my fur hat FWIW...
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Here we go again...isn't this off-topic????
It got off topic pretty quickly when someone posted something against using fur...perhaps the fur debate should be brought elsewhere, to the green living forum (where there was a long thread on fur) or great debates...
It got off topic pretty quickly when someone posted something against using fur...perhaps the fur debate should be brought elsewhere, to the green living forum (where there was a long thread on fur) or great debates...
There are some practices so monstrous that no moral individual can countenance their proceeding as if they were harmless and acceptable, perhaps even fashionable. It's as if someone on the Parenting forum started a thread about killing an unwelcome or unruly child without leaving any evidence. When a thread enters the area of vicious and savage behavior, an attack is not off-topic.
There is no legitimate reason whatsoever for using fur garments or decorations. The fact that millions of people survive in very cold climates without wearing fur is proof of this. It is possible to obtain wool in a completely humane manner, harming neither the sheep nor the coyotes who are drawn to this helpless and unnatural species.
The fact that so many can discuss this as if it were a normal fashion topic makes me want to vomit.
There are some practices so monstrous that no moral individual can countenance their proceeding as if they were harmless and acceptable, perhaps even fashionable. It's as if someone on the Parenting forum started a thread about killing an unwelcome or unruly child without leaving any evidence. When a thread enters the area of vicious and savage behavior, an attack is not off-topic.
There is no legitimate reason whatsoever for using fur garments or decorations. The fact that millions of people survive in very cold climates without wearing fur is proof of this. It is possible to obtain wool in a completely humane manner, harming neither the sheep nor the coyotes who are drawn to this helpless and unnatural species.
The fact that so many can discuss this as if it were a normal fashion topic makes me want to vomit.
Go right ahead. Obviously we all have differing opinions.
There are some practices so monstrous that no moral individual can countenance their proceeding as if they were harmless and acceptable, perhaps even fashionable. It's as if someone on the Parenting forum started a thread about killing an unwelcome or unruly child without leaving any evidence. When a thread enters the area of vicious and savage behavior, an attack is not off-topic.
There is no legitimate reason whatsoever for using fur garments or decorations. The fact that millions of people survive in very cold climates without wearing fur is proof of this. It is possible to obtain wool in a completely humane manner, harming neither the sheep nor the coyotes who are drawn to this helpless and unnatural species.
The fact that so many can discuss this as if it were a normal fashion topic makes me want to vomit.
Do you eat meat?
I can turn around and say: there's no legitimate reason to use petroleum products people are killed to ensure the supply of.
Your argument is based on incorrect information animal rights groups put out.
If you take two extremes, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle...
I absolutely agree with you here. I wouldn't entirely discount a hunters' site for learning and gathering info. Suspicious of their data and agenda, yes, but there's a little bit of truth everywhere - even in those animal welfare sites.
..typically people won't bother with the work[] needed to seperate it. With each use plastic degrades in quality so eventually more is needed for certain products. I'm not sure what can be done about that, it needs to change but it's hard to change habits like that. Where I live refuse companies are cited for not recycling plastics, tins and paper products. They get all bent out of shape if their customers don't recycle.
Other fibers are integrated into the clothing I'm taking about. It's not strictly plastic, so more and more plastic is not necessarily needed. Typically people won't both unless they have an easy option. And it is extraordinarily easy. I know habits are hard to change and not everywhere is recycling an option.
It has to start somewhere. Even my sister who lives in the country where recycling is not an option, takes time the few seconds it takes to separate newspapers/cardboard. Once a month they take that to a town where recycling is available. Pretty simple.
One of these days, we're going to run out of this "convenient" lifestyle we have - esp. given the population projection of over 100 billion people by 2050. I'm just saying that the earth's resources are finite. Agree?
It got off topic pretty quickly when someone posted something against using fur...perhaps the fur debate should be brought elsewhere, to the green living forum (where there was a long thread on fur) or great debates...
I know about that Great Debates thread. But I would love to see a thread where these issues are discussed in a civil manner - no smart-aleck comments, no-name calling, etc. Given the reactions of some people, I just don't think that's possible. C'est la vie!
I hope all the anti-fur folks posting here are vegans.
Thank you! I hope so too
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Obviously we all have differing opinions. 
] needed to seperate it. With each use plastic degrades in quality so eventually more is needed for certain products. I'm not sure what can be done about that, it needs to change but it's hard to change habits like that. Where I live refuse companies are cited for not recycling plastics, tins and paper products. They get all bent out of shape if their customers don't recycle. 
C'est la vie! 
