[jghorton]

Originally Posted by justNancy

So, what are you saying? If his Latino half shot was arrested, you wouldn't march?


I agree. Being White, I don't like it either. However, don't you find it odd that White people only call it playing "the race card" when a Black person uses it? I don't think Zimmerman is necessarily a racist, but he definitely chose to follow Trayvon Martin because he was Black. He gave no other reason for finding him "suspicious" looking. He couldn't possibly have known he was on drugs or up to no good (what he said in the 911 call) since it was dark and Martin was just walking. He wasn't breaking into cars, he wasn't looking into windows. He was walking.

There is some truth to that, but, life doesn't really offer excuses for being blue, green, tall, short ... or much of anything else, However, there is a segment of our society that seems to find excuses for almost anything if it involves a black person.

Thank goodness, there is a large segment of the hard-working, upstanding black population that is equally tired of people of any color ... who seek special treatment and allowances instead of real equality.

Many people are speaking out about this very issue. Here, for example, is a recent editorial by Walter Williams, a black writer, regarding this case and the issue of 'racial profiling'. He makes some excellent, incisive points! Walter Williams: Profiling

[Cruzincat]

If this had gone to the Grand Jury and been turned down for prosecution, the public would not get any information on what the evidence was. There would be rioting.

If he is charged with the maximum count possible, the jury will be forced to consider the evidence very closely to make sure they don't make a mistake and convict an innocent man and send him to prison for at least most of the rest of his life. There is the possibility that there is a preponderence of evidence to convict him, and that is why he is being charged.

But, you also have to consider the hostility of some of the public that has been displayed about this case. Could it be that he is being charged with the highest level of crime that can be charged, without risking the grand jury gambit, so that the lack of evidence proving his guilt of murder in the second degree will be seen by the public first, to minimize the racial unrest when/if he is exhonerated?

[seain dublin]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Buzzcut

I'm not so sure, to me this is a fundamental issue of right vs. wrong. I think there's a certain segment of gun-toting NRA wingnuts that make up a fair share of that 30% that would salivate and fantasize about being in Zman's position. I think a lot of the 70% see this for what it certainly appears to be.....a "hunt" instead of a justifiable use of force.

Even some staunch 2nd Amendment posters on various sites I've visited have said "This guy (Zman) makes us look bad".

I agree, I also love how many of them think everyone who is licensed to carry a gun is always right, knows how to use a gun, and always exercises good judgement.

To use that kind of logic, then everyone who has a drivers license should be on the road.

Glad to hear charges are being filed, maybe some of these people who think they can shoot anyone who looks at them crosseyed will think twice.

[Sgt. Buzzcut]

Originally Posted by seain dublin

I agree, I also love how many of them think everyone who is licensed to carry a gun is always right, knows how to use a gun, and always exercises good judgement.

To use that kind of logic, then everyone who has a drivers license should be on the road.

Glad to hear charges are being filed, maybe some of these people who think they can shoot anyone who looks at them crosseyed will think twice.

Exactly and this is key, just imagine that Trayvon was in the wrong and it played out exatly as Zimmerman described, (which I don't believe for a moment). Would not a leg shot or even display of a firearm to an unarmed opponent be sufficient to relieve the threat of imminent danger or fear for one's life?

So many of these SYG cases are head and chest shots when in all likelyhood blowing out someones knee or hip would have sufficed to remove a perceived threat.

[seain dublin]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Buzzcut

Exactly and this is key, just imagine that Trayvon was in the wrong and it played out exatly as Zimmerman described, (which I don't believe for a moment). Would not a leg shot or even display of a firearm to an unarmed opponent be sufficient to relieve the threat of imminent danger or fear for one's life?

So many of these SYG cases are head and chest shots when in all likelyhood blowing out someones knee or hip would have sufficed to remove a perceived threat.

You're exactly right. There was one in Tampa about a month ago. A road rage incident where both drivers pulled over foolishly to "discuss" the problem.

It ended with one of them dead in the road, shot in the chest.

Then there was the one last year where the retired NYC bus driver(a black guy) shot and killed his 42yr old neighbor(an Iraqi war veteran whose 8yr old daughter watched him die) all because a teenage boy was skateboarding on a basketball court(oh the horror).

This was on a Saturday afternoon with lots of people around in a park in their subdivision.

The older guy came out of the house with a gun, why? This was a minor problem that really wasn't any of his concern as he was inside his house.

Unless someone is making an unreasonable amount of noise or doing something really outrageous why he got involved and how it got so escalated never made any sense.

You still don't bring a gun with you to discuss an issue like this.

Maybe some of these hotheads will realize there are consequences.

A lot of them don't have brains to even understand the law in the first place, they think they have the right to shoot and kill if someone gives them the stinkeye.

[justNancy]

Originally Posted by jghorton

Many people are speaking out about this very issue. Here, for example, is a recent editorial by Walter Williams, a black writer, regarding this case and the issue of 'racial profiling'. He makes some excellent, incisive points! [url=http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/williamns032812.php3]Walter Williams: Profiling[/url]

In other threads (on the political forum) I mentioned this several times, that is, you can racially profile someone without being a racist. Actually, in that case it's just profiling. Race just happens to be included in the description. If you describe someone as tall, skinny, with red hair, it doesn't mean you don't like redheads. However, I understand why the parents of Trayvon Martin felt that justice was not being served and asked for help. The Sanford Police also had a past reputation of sweeping crimes against Blacks under the carpet although, in defense of the police department, I realize the investigator originally asked the State Attorney to file manslaughter charges against Zimmerman.

There's no evidence that George Zimmerman is a racist, only a man who went too far in his role as a neighborhood watch volunteer. Some neighbors appreciated his aggressive tactics and others complained about them. In any case, he made a very stupid mistake that cost a young man his life.

Now we just have to wait to see if the evidence will support a conviction or he will be acquitted.

[justNancy]

Originally Posted by Cruzincat

If he is charged with the maximum count possible, the jury will be forced to consider the evidence very closely to make sure they don't make a mistake and convict an innocent man and send him to prison for at least most of the rest of his life. There is the possibility that there is a preponderence of evidence to convict him, and that is why he is being charged.

I'm not a legal expert by a long shot, but I live in Florida, and I'm pretty sure Florida Law allows a judge to give the jury the option to convict on lesser charges like manslaughter. Usually this is done if the evidence and eyewitness testimony do not support the murder charge. I'm not sure, but I think the request for reducing the charges, even after a trial has begun, comes from the prosecution.

I understand what you're saying about a jury taking a murder charge more seriously, but I hope every jury considers the evidence very, very carefully in any case. I've never been arrested but, if I were, I'd care about being convicted falsely of even a minor charge that carries a very light sentence. Just one week in jail would scare the hell out of me. I don't even like using a public toilet in a shopping mall and I can't go to sleep without flossing! Seriously, a conviction can follow you around the rest of your life. I'm already in my 60s, but a younger person might have a difficult time finding a job with a felony conviction.

I believe the reason he was charged with 2nd degree murder is so he cannot flee since bailed can be denied. With a manslaughter charge, he probably would get a bail bond without any problem. This way, Zimmerman can be held in custody until the end of a trial. We can only wait to find out if bail is granted by a judge tomorrow.

[cry_havoc]

I like guns and believe people should carry them, but the Florida is stupid.

It basically says, "Shoot if you feel threatened."

For every case where it can legitimately be used to protect someone there is 3-5 where it will be an excuse to shoot someone when it is not necessary.

Guns are not the answer to every disagreement, argument, or fight.

They should only be used as a last case scenario. That is called responsibility.

[Drover]

Good lord. You "shoot 'em in the kneecap" people watch too many dumb action movies or something. Try to hit a moving target that small from even 3 feet away without adrenaline coursing through your system, much less with.

[jambo101]

I would hope the upcoming trial would ultimately clearly define what is meant by stand your ground as at the moment its a vague law that allows people to kill others over trivialities that could probably be resolved with some heated dialogue or a minor scuffle.