[drfranklin]

To those in the Panhandle,

I have an excellent job opportunity in Panama City. I know a little about the area thru web research (and thru searching the threads here).

Questions:

1. Public schools are important to us (we have 3 kids). I have heard Bay county schools are just average. How do the schools compare in Walton county?

2. Does anybody have an opinion of the private schools in the Panama City area? We have looked at Holy Nativity (Home) on the web. Any opinion of this school? (We currently have a daughter in private pre-k.)

3. Are there Mom's Clubs (International MOMS Club) in the area? My wife belongs to one here in Chattanooga, but we have not heard of a chapter in the Panama City area.

4. Is it possible to live in Walton county (east side, Inlet Beach, etc.) and commute to Panama City down 98. (We especially like the 30A area - would a commute be possible from this area [Seaside, Seagrove Beach, etc]?)

5. How is the traffic on 98 during the high tourist season.

6. We have never lived in a beach community. How expensive is homeowner's insurance in this area?

7. Any personal pro's or con's on Panama City or the Emerald Coast?

Thanks very much for the replies .

[deckardc]

Originally Posted by drfranklin

1. Public schools are important to us (we have 3 kids). I have heard Bay county schools are just average. How do the schools compare in Walton county?

I lived in Panama City Beach for several years and live over in Fort Walton Beach now. The public schools in Bay Co. aren't great. We had friends whose kids went to Patronis Elementary on the beach and they were very happy with it. My kids weren't in school when we lived there, if they had been we would have put them in either a charter school or private school. Bay Co. schools are ranked #21 of 67. Walton Co. schools are ranked #16. Walton used to be better but for some reason they are slipping. Bay Co. has a high drop out rate and a very high teen pregnancy rate. Get used to seeing 15 year-olds pushing strollers at the mall.

Originally Posted by drfranklin

2. Does anybody have an opinion of the private schools in the Panama City area? We have looked at Holy Nativity (Home) on the web. Any opinion of this school? (We currently have a daughter in private pre-k.)

Holy Nativity has an excellent reputation as does Bay Haven Charter Academy. We had a friend who taught there and loved it. There really aren't any secular private schools there and many of the religious schools are evangelical. Holy Nativity is mainstream Episcopal but they accept students of all backgrounds.[/quote]

Originally Posted by drfranklin

3. Are there Mom's Clubs (International MOMS Club) in the area? My wife belongs to one here in Chattanooga, but we have not heard of a chapter in the Panama City area.

I don't think there is one there. My wife looked into it when we lived there and there wasn't one then. She did go to some sort of playgroup there a few times but she wasn't happy with it so I don't think she kept going.

Originally Posted by drfranklin

4. Is it possible to live in Walton county (east side, Inlet Beach, etc.) and commute to Panama City down 98. (We especially like the 30A area - would a commute be possible from this area [Seaside, Seagrove Beach, etc]?)

Where is your job located? On the beach, on the mainland, at the Naval Station, downtown Panama City? It will affect the commute greatly. It probably wouldn't be difficult to commute from Inlet Beach but a commute from the 30A areas would be anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour depending on where your job is located. Those areas are extremely expensive. I don't think anything in Seaside or Seagrove goes for less than 1 million but you could have Karl Rove as a neighbor.

Originally Posted by drfranklin

5. How is the traffic on 98 during the high tourist season.

On the mainland, the traffic is no different during tourist season than off season. On the beach, is another story. There are three main roads across PCB which are cleverly named Front Beach, Middle Beach, and Back Beach (although I think they now call Back Beach Panama City Pkwy). Back Beach is the main Hwy 98 thoroughfare and Front Beach is known as Alt. 98. Front Beach is the beach front road and during tourist season it can be a big parking lot. Spring break is huge in Panama City Beach. It lasts for 6-8 weeks and it can take you 30 minutes to go 3 miles. There is no shortage of drunken college kids at all hours of the day and night and it is not uncommon to have girls lift their tops when you drive by. Middle Beach mostly goes through residential areas and does not go the length of the beach. Back Beach is the main road across the beach and it will have the least traffic. It is easiest to take this road and avoid the chaos closer to the beach front.

Originally Posted by drfranklin

6. We have never lived in a beach community. How expensive is homeowner's insurance in this area?

Very expensive. Depending on how many blocks you are from the gulf front, you may not be able to get private insurance and you will have to go with Citizens which is run by the state of FL. The closer you are to tidal water such as the Gulf or a bay, the harder it is to get insurance and the higher it costs. I live 5 blocks from a bay. My house is 22 ft. above sea level and has a replacement value of $156,000. I pay $3400 per year for homeowners and I called 11 different companies, only 2 were even willing to give me a quote. I strongly suspect my insurance will go up at least $400 or more next year if they don't cancel it. People who live farther inland have better luck with insurance.

Originally Posted by drfranklin

7. Any personal pro's or con's on Panama City or the Emerald Coast?

I guess it depends on who you are. I don't mind the panhandle, my wife hates it. I think it's probably a better place to retire than to raise a family. Some areas are pretty redneck and I don't mean in the quaint, country way. I mean in the kind of people you see on COPS way. Some areas are less so. Panama City Beach and Panama City are two different municipalities. Panama City Beach was known as the Redneck Riviera but I think they are trying to change that to become more of an upscale resort area like Destin, FL. Panama City is a fairly quiet, mostly working class community. There are several areas that are pretty rundown. The mall is tiny and the majority of restaurants are chains like Olive Garden or Outback. The restaurants on the beach are aimed at tourists and charge insane prices for food that is mediocre at best. One restaurant we did like on the beach was Montego Bay.

Pros and cons for Panama City:
Pros

The beaches are gorgeous, especially St. Andrews State Park.
You will see dolphins almost every time you cross the Hathaway bridge.
It's kind of cool to be pelted with seabreeze while loading groceries into your car.
There is no shortage of activities for the kids like mini-golf, a pirate ship, and go-karts. One mini-golf place even has a huge maze.
There are some really nice parks like St. Andrews and the excellent Frank Brown on the beach. There are some decent public piers for fishing too.
On the beach, Santa drives up and down the residential streets on a firetruck and throws candy to the kids on Christmas Eve (my girls LOVED this).
During the winter, the beach is a ghost town. It is almost like having your own private beach.
It's cheaper to live here than most beach front areas in the state.

Cons

The Smurfitt-Stone cardboard plant that covers the area with a foul stench from dusk to dawn.
Overall, the area is about 20 years behind.
The schools are lousy.
Taxes are high.
Insurance is higher.
It is seriously lacking in anything that would pass as culturally enriching.
It is pretty isolated.
The quality of housing is poor.
It is primarily geared for tourists.
The cost of living is high for what you get.
The beach front is rapidly being turned into one big wall of condos.
A lot of the residents are very narrow minded.
The nearest quality shopping is 50 miles west in Destin (unless you like Sears).

[drfranklin]

Thanks for the very thorough reply deckardc!

To answer your question concerning the job location: downtown Panama City.

(Yeah, I figured Seaside/Seagrove were VERY expensive.)

By the way, any information on Pier Park? Will this bring some "upscale" shopping/dining to Panama City?

[deckardc]

Originally Posted by drfranklin

Thanks for the very thorough reply deckardc!

To answer your question concerning the job location: downtown Panama City.

(Yeah, I figured Seaside/Seagrove were VERY expensive.)

By the way, any information on Pier Park? Will this bring some "upscale" shopping/dining to Panama City?

You are welcome! It's a slow day at the office.

Yes, I think Pier Park will improve the quality of shopping and dining on the beach. When I lived there, no one had ever heard of Starbucks and now I think there are at least 4 or 5 in the Panama City area. We were in PCB a few weeks ago and I was surprised at some of the places that had already opened. Even my wife said something to the effect of "why weren't these places here when we lived here?" The developers website has a list of names of some of the mall tenants that will be there:
Pier Park Retail - A Simon Property
As I said, they are trying to compete with Destin and specifically the Destin Commons shopping center.

They are also building some upscale neighborhoods on the beach. Tapestry Park is one that comes to mind. Some are really upscale and pretty exclusive. As I recall, golfer Greg Norman was developing a golf course community there. The eastern end of PCB and the Lagoon area are slightly less desirable. The far west end has some nice areas, such as Carillon Beach but they are getting to be close to Seaside prices. From the central beach area it is about 15 miles to downtown Panama City.

On the mainland there are some nice areas. As I recall, Kingswood was a nice development. A lot of people like the Cove area but I thought it was too close to the Smurfitt-Stone plant. The historic St. Andrews area is nice if you like older houses and it is near the marina and the historic downtown area. Houses are typically less expensive on the mainland.

I would rent at first until you decide which area you want to live in. The real estate market on the panhandle is sluggish right now. Prices have already dropped in PCB since I think prices may go down further. Some interest in the area has picked up since they are trying to shed the Redneck Riviera image. Also, they are building a large international airport on the mainland. There is already an airport there but it is very small and only smaller planes can use it due to the length of the runways. You have to fly from there to Atlanta to catch a jet. The new airport will be able to accommodate jets and will have direct flights.

[drfranklin]

Additional Random Panama City/Emerald Coast Questions
(for deckardc or for anybody who knows):


1. Do you foresee Panama City Beach becoming the “Destin of the Eastern Emerald Coast” with addition of Pier Park, the Front Beach Road revitalization (see the Panama City Redevelopment Agency, PCB.gif), and the new International Airport?

2. How much of an influence do the military bases (Elgin AFB, Tyndall AFB) have on the surrounding area (politically, culturally, economically)?

3. Will there ever be a major connecting interstate from Panama City/South Walton to I-10?

4. I’ve heard that the Smurfitt-Stone plant might close in the next few years (due to restructuring of their container division). Is this true?

5. How is Shipwreck Island water park? Worth visiting? (I’m surprised they don’t offer an annual pass.) How does it compare to Big Kahuna’s/Waterville?

6. I want to get back into biking. Are there any good biking trails around Panama City Beach or South Walton? Is the area "bike friendly"?

7. Finally, does the beach ever get “old”?

Thanks .

[deckardc]

Originally Posted by drfranklin

Additional Random Panama City/Emerald Coast Questions
(for deckardc or for anybody who knows):

1. Do you foresee Panama City Beach becoming the “Destin of the Eastern Emerald Coast” with addition of Pier Park, the Front Beach Road revitalization (see the Panama City Redevelopment Agency, PCB.gif), and the new International Airport?

It may, possibly, years from now. If they get enough upscale stores, resort condos, and the new international airport built it may come close to Destin. That is their ultimate goal. The biggest issues are changing the rest of the country's perception of PCB and squeezing out the rest of the downmarket, Old South element that is still there. Not too long ago, Destin was a sleepy country fishing village. Now, celebrities and millionaires vacation there. They go there simply because they have been convinced that that is where the affluent go and the city has put in enough of the upscale amenities to make the affluent comfy.

PCB has changed tremendously since I first moved there in 2001. Within one week of moving there, I thought my wife was going to kill me for agreeing to go there (I transferred with my job). She used to call it a "third world county". No one there had ever heard of Starbucks. We were in PCB a few weeks ago and even my wife was surprised at how much nicer it was. She was annoyed that it wasn't like that when we lived there.

Destin may always be more upscale but I think in the next 10 years PCB will give it a run for it's money if they keep improving at their current pace.

Originally Posted by drfranklin

2. How much of an influence do the military bases (Elgin AFB, Tyndall AFB) have on the surrounding area (politically, culturally, economically)?

Eglin doesn't have much influence on Panama City as it is 60 miles away. The two big bases in Panama City are the Naval Coastal Systems Station and Tyndall AFB. They have a huge impact on the area, politically, culturally, and economically. Politically and culturally the area is very right wing, christian conservative. They are pro military, pro war, pro Bush, and pro Republican. The entire panhandle is a God, guns, and country area and people with differing views are not much appreciated. A neighbor of ours in PCB still had a Gore 2000 sticker on her car's rear window in 2001 and someone scratched through it with a ballpoint pen in a parking lot. They were apparently so angry about it that they gouged hard enough to scratch the glass.

The panhandle has several military bases and the bases are the largest employers in the region. After that, it is tourism and anything associated with tourism. If the bases closed it would be an economic disaster for the area, including Panama City.

Originally Posted by drfranklin

3. Will there ever be a major connecting interstate from Panama City/South Walton to I-10?

Not anytime soon, but I think eventually they will have to do it. Right now they are in the process of widening route 79 to 6 lanes. I'm not sure why they chose that road as it is not the most commonly used route. Most people use either 231 or 331. We always used 331.

The biggest barrier to expansion in Bay and Walton Counties is the Port St. Joe company. They are a timber company that bought thousands of acres of panhandle forests after the great depression. They don't process timber much anymore and have switched to real estate development. Most of the new residential and commercial development going on in those areas is done by Port St. Joe. Any other development typically has to be purchased from PSJ or negotiated with PSJ. They are putting in so many new developments in Bay and Walton that ultimately they are going to have to improve the highway access to the area but it is probably years away.

Originally Posted by drfranklin

4. I’ve heard that the Smurfitt-Stone plant might close in the next few years (due to restructuring of their container division). Is this true?

I have no idea what Smurfit-Stone's plans are. I have not heard anything about them closing. It would be a BIG bonus if they did. That industrial area over there is regularly on the EPA's hit list. If I remember correctly, there is a Superfund site very close to Smurfit. They definitely have a negative impact on the air and water quality in the area.

One thing you might want to keep tabs on in if you go to any of the beaches in PCB is water quality. They still have antiquated storm drains that empty right on to the beach. Cryptosporidium and Fecal Coliform are regular visitors to the waters. The best places to go are either St. Andrews state park or Camp Helen state park. I don't recall either of these beaches having warnings but then they don't have the storm drains either. The local paper posts the water bacterial reports every week to let you know which beaches are safest.

Originally Posted by drfranklin

5. How is Shipwreck Island water park? Worth visiting? (I’m surprised they don’t offer an annual pass.) How does it compare to Big Kahuna’s/Waterville?

It's ok, but it's a little run down. We only went there once. It's what you might expect of a small town water park. I was surprised that it was still open. The people who owned the Miracle Strip Amusement Park also own Shipwreck Island. They sold Miracle Strip a few years ago to a condo developer who has since abandoned his condo plans. So, now the park sits and decays. I was surprised that they didn't sell Shipwreck as well.

Big Kahuna's in Destin is much better. It's much bigger and better maintained. It's a bit pricey depending on your family size but it is very popular and a lot of people in the area have season passes.

Originally Posted by drfranklin

6. I want to get back into biking. Are there any good biking trails around Panama City Beach or South Walton? Is the area "bike friendly"?

What kind of biking are you into? Long distance or mountain? There are some long distance bikers in the area but they usually risk their lives riding down 98. They have been trying to add bike lanes but they are incomplete and hit or miss. The 30A stretch in Walton is much better for that type of biking.

For mountain biking, the Eglin AFB reservation north of Fort Walton is the most popular. There is also Point Washington State Forest in south Walton Co.

Originally Posted by drfranklin

7. Finally, does the beach ever get “old”?
Thanks .

Yes and no. When you first move to FL you will go to the beach almost every day, even in the winter. Then it dwindles off to the weekends, then every other weekend and so on. A lot of people move here expecting it to be a permanent vacation but you still have to do all the other stuff you do at home but don't do on vacation, like work, mow the lawn, go grocery shopping, etc. You get busy working during the week and save all the chores for the weekend, eventually the beach gets squeezed out more and more. However, you will still go to the beach more here than you do in Chattanooga.


Is Panama City the only place on the panhandle that had a suitable clinic or do any of the other counties have one as well? Another county may suit you better. Okaloosa and Santa Rosa counties have good schools and fewer of Panama City's other issues. I would think there are quite a few underserved areas around here.

If you think of any more questions, just ask.

[phoang124]

1. Do you foresee Panama City Beach becoming the “Destin of the Eastern Emerald Coast” with addition of Pier Park, the Front Beach Road revitalization (see the Panama City Redevelopment Agency, PCB.gif), and the new International Airport?

I agree with deckardc. Panama City Beach has the opportunities. However, if their plan backfires they are going to have alot of condos on their hands. I think right now there are too many. One thing that PCB has on Destin is that there are more roads to travel. Destin only has 98 going through it for the most part. PCB has front beach (always crowded during holidays...it pays to know the back streets), middle beach, and back beach (hwy 98).


2. How much of an influence do the military bases (Elgin AFB, Tyndall AFB) have on the surrounding area (politically, culturally, economically)?

Tyndall and the navy base play a big part in it. I am currently employed by the navy base. They bring plenty of jobs and money into the economy.

3. Will there ever be a major connecting interstate from Panama City/South Walton to I-10?

I usually use 331 to go to New Orleans. They are currently moving the 331 bypass so that you don't have to go onto I-20. US-231 is used to get to I-10 if going east.

4. I’ve heard that the Smurfitt-Stone plant might close in the next few years (due to restructuring of their container division). Is this true?

No Idea...but it does stink when the wind is coming from the South.

5. How is Shipwreck Island water park? Worth visiting? (I’m surprised they don’t offer an annual pass.) How does it compare to Big Kahuna’s/Waterville?

I liked shipwreck...I thought it was nice and some of the rides were pretty nice. THey did a small renovation this past winter. If one of your kids knows someone that works there they can get a free pass.

6. I want to get back into biking. Are there any good biking trails around Panama City Beach or South Walton? Is the area "bike friendly"?

I don't know about S.Walton, but depending on the kind of biking you want to know. Aforementioned, 30A is great for cruising and lengthy rides. I know a good bit of people take road bikes up HWY77 up to Sunny Hills. There is trail riding at Crooked Creek and Pine Log. (two trails, one park) It is nice for the area.

7. Finally, does the beach ever get “old”?

I play beach volleyball so I'm there every weekend....been here a tad over 2 years and it is pretty darn nice....except when the sand is burning your feet.

Thanks .

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by deckardc

It may, possibly, years from now. If they get enough upscale stores, resort condos, and the new international airport built it may come close to Destin. That is their ultimate goal. The biggest issues are changing the rest of the country's perception of PCB and squeezing out the rest of the downmarket, Old South element that is still there. Not too long ago, Destin was a sleepy country fishing village. Now, celebrities and millionaires vacation there. They go there simply because they have been convinced that that is where the affluent go and the city has put in enough of the upscale amenities to make the affluent comfy.


The biggest barrier to expansion in Bay and Walton Counties is the Port St. Joe company. They are a timber company that bought thousands of acres of panhandle forests after the great depression. They don't process timber much anymore and have switched to real estate development. Most of the new residential and commercial development going on in those areas is done by Port St. Joe. Any other development typically has to be purchased from PSJ or negotiated with PSJ. They are putting in so many new developments in Bay and Walton that ultimately they are going to have to improve the highway access to the area but it is probably years away.

Slight correction: It is not the Port St Joe company, it is the St Joe Company, and they are trying to get people used to just calling it JOE. (http://www.joe.com/web/ - broken link)
(Years ago they were the St Joe Paper Company. The Port St Joe paper mill is gone now.)
Their headquarters is up in Jacksonville, but they maintain offices in Port St Joe and Panama City. They own over 800,000 acres, most but not all in north Florida. The popped bubble in the housing market hit Joe hard and they laid off a lot of people last year, my husband included.

One thing you might want to keep tabs on in if you go to any of the beaches in PCB is water quality. They still have antiquated storm drains that empty right on to the beach. Cryptosporidium and Fecal Coliform are regular visitors to the waters. The best places to go are either St. Andrews state park or Camp Helen state park. I don't recall either of these beaches having warnings but then they don't have the storm drains either. The local paper posts the water bacterial reports every week to let you know which beaches are safest.

Here is the beach sampling site that I sometimes use. Bay County seems okay.
Bay County

ETA:
In terms of culture, I think they are trying.
There is the Panama City Music Association, which puts on some good programs at the Marina Civic Center.
The Bay Arts Alliance (http://www.bayarts.org/localartandculture.html - broken link) is both supportive and supported.
And Plein Air has come to Port St Joe twice now, looks like they were in Destin this month.
I think northwest Florida is really trying to be more than the Redneck Riviera, but yes, they have a ways to go.

[KimDouglas]

You may want to check out this site and look at the school grades here in Bay County. My girls graduated from Mosley High School and we were very pleased. We do have some very good schools here, you just have to know which ones.

I pulled a few of the schools in the link so you can see the results. Click on
School Accountability Report

No, Panama City Beach is not a shopping/action packed hotspot like Miami or Orlando, but we also don't have the crime like those cities. I too have often thought its about 20 years behind the rest of the state, which can be a good thing. Your stepping back to a slower pace in the Panhandle, we hope you move on in!

[seagrovegirl]

I own a second home in Seagrove and thinking of moving there full time. I ahve an 8 year old and my husband and I would need to find jobs. What is it like for 40 somthings with a child?