[hurricaneMan1992]

I don't think you need density "throughout" as long as you have density "at both ends." For a HSR with stops in Miami and Orlando and Jacksonville, most of your riders are going to be in a certain radius of Miami or Orlando or Jacksonville. It doesn't matter that there are farms ans suburban sprawl in between. We routinely, and without questioning our sanity, fly over farmland to get to a more dense city, so what's wrong with taking a train through the same farm land or suburban development to get to another city center?

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

I don't think you need density "throughout" as long as you have density "at both ends." For a HSR with stops in Miami and Orlando and Jacksonville, most of your riders are going to be in a certain radius of Miami or Orlando or Jacksonville. It doesn't matter that there are farms ans suburban sprawl in between. We routinely, and without questioning our sanity, fly over farmland to get to a more dense city, so what's wrong with taking a train through the same farm land or suburban development to get to another city center?

Well - in my last message I was talking about transport within metro areas - and you're talking about transport between metro areas. Two different animals.

I don't know anything about you. But - if there was a Miami to JAX train - would you ever use it? Would anyone ever use it? How often - and for what? Orlando to Tampa - ditto. JAX to anywhere - ditto. No offense to you - but I wouldn't visit Miami/Dade more often if a train ran between the 2 cities. The route that makes the most sense to me is Miami to Orlando - which is why FEC is trying that first. If Miami to Orlando doesn't work - nothing in Florida will work.

Also - where are our "city centers"? Downtown Miami - downtown Orlando - downtown JAX don't contain anywhere near the majority of our metro area residents. Let's do a hypothetical just based on you and me. You're in Aventura - I'm in Ponte Vedra Beach. Would you drive to downtown Miami to catch a train to downtown JAX - and then take a cab or rent a car or whatever if you were trying to visit me? I don't know how long it takes to get from Aventura to downtown Miami these days - but let's say you'd have to allow about an hour (including transfer time at the station). Also an hour at my end (I'm about 30-40 minutes south of downtown JAX). It's about a 335 mile drive from PVB to Aventura. My optimistic travel calculator says it's about a 5 hour drive - but I'd give it closer to 6 because of SE Florida traffic. Let's assume the train takes 2.5 hours (this is about how long it takes the average bullet trains - not the absolute fastest - the Shinkansen - to cover a comparable distance in Japan - any train here would probably take longer - but let's assume it's a fabulous train).

Would you be willing to take a train to save perhaps 1.5 hours - and deal with the hassles of getting to/from stations WRT your point of origin and your point of arrival? And your transportation needs at point of arrival. I doubt most people would be willing to do it. I certainly wouldn't.

Of course - we haven't addressed the cost issue. No question a car would be cheaper/much cheaper - especially if you're dealing with 2+ people.

I can hear you (and/or perhaps others) protest. Well there should be a station in/near Aventura - and Ponte Vedra Beach (and every other place in between where 20 people a day might board a train). But - once you do that - you're turning a 2.5 hour train trip into a much longer train trip. Note that this is one reason the FEC Miami/Orlando train might actually work. It has almost no stops. One reason the bullet trains in Japan are fast is they have limited stops (our Shinkansen between downtown Tokyo and an area outside central downtown Osaka - the bullet train doesn't stop in central downtown Osaka - had only 2 stops - and one was in the major city of Kyoto). Perhaps someone can give me a workable scenario for Florida - but I haven't seen one yet. Robyn