[beach43ofus]

Henry10 shared this link on another Forida topic thread, and I feel its apropriate to this thread as well since so many imply humans are causing Miami to sink...

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...al-environment

This article/study shows Florida as being the #1 state for the environment.

So, if Miami's sinking due to humans, it must due to humans in other states....like Ohio that ranks 48th, Louisiana 49th, and Ilinois 50th.

[Corrie22]

Miami is not sinking....a small area on the bay side of Miami Beach is sinking...and not all of Miami Beach
...the area that is sinking has been flooding at King Tides for over 100 years
That area was originally a mangrove swamp....when the bay was dredged it was filled to make a farm...they tried to grow mangoes and avocado and couldn't because of the salt water flooding.
...changed to growing coconuts which are salt tolerant..and made a fortune when Fisher bought them all up for landscaping...and later bought the property for development.
Fisher owed Lincoln Road and wanted to develop it...and run the trolleys around Miami Beach to his casinos...with the loop going down Lincoln Road...he had to buy that farm road...which is now Alton Road...to do that and complete the loop
Alton was paved at grade and not elevated...and has been flooding at King Tides ever since

Nothing has changed...sea level rise is still less than 1 inch a decade...exactly the same as it's been for over 100 years

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sl..._meantrend.png

[beach43ofus]

Thx for the info Corrie22. I have a friend who has a condo near Lincoln road, and he's got it listed for sale. I minor factor inhis decision is how the underground parking garage floods, and the lack of above grade parking when that occurs. This seems consistent with your post.

He also cited the rising costs of eating out along Lincoln Road as being a bigger factor though. He can live anywhere he pleases, and I think he's grown bored of South Beach. The periodic flooding is more of a nuissance to him.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Corrie22

Miami is not sinking....a small area on the bay side of Miami Beach is sinking...and not all of Miami Beach
...the area that is sinking has been flooding at King Tides for over 100 years
That area was originally a mangrove swamp....when the bay was dredged it was filled to make a farm...they tried to grow mangoes and avocado and couldn't because of the salt water flooding.
...changed to growing coconuts which are salt tolerant..and made a fortune when Fisher bought them all up for landscaping...and later bought the property for development.
Fisher owed Lincoln Road and wanted to develop it...and run the trolleys around Miami Beach to his casinos...with the loop going down Lincoln Road...he had to buy that farm road...which is now Alton Road...to do that and complete the loop
Alton was paved at grade and not elevated...and has been flooding at King Tides ever since

Nothing has changed...sea level rise is still less than 1 inch a decade...exactly the same as it's been for over 100 years

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sl..._meantrend.png

Exact details get ignored and broad assertions are made.



Good points.

[WRnative]

Harold Wanless, chair of the geological sciences department at the Univ. of Miami, says Miami will experience 3 to 10 meters (10 to 33 feet) of sea level rise by 2100, far more than predicted by the U.N. climate change pane and the Fourth National Climate Assessment.

Wanless' prediction is much greater than contained in the Fourth National Climate Assessment, yet the man-made climate change science deniers, including "Denier-in-Chief" Trump, claim that the Fourth National Climate Assessment is based on "extreme" projections.

Here's the reality. The vast majority of deniers are NOT scientists. Donald Trump couldn't wear Wanless' baby shoes when it comes to scientific knowledge, especially regarding sea level rise, where Wanless perhaps is Florida's leading expert.

Wanless predicts a spurt, now underway, in sea level rise due to accelerating global ice melt. If Wanless is correct, within 2-3 decades, Trump and Florida's home-grown deniers -- Rubio, Scott, and DeSantis will become pariahs. Most of Florida's beaches will be gone and coastal erosion will be a massive problem.

Besides explaining Wanless' projections, the following article also notes the House Democrats will undo Republican deniers' decision to disband the House committee on climate change and reinstate that committee. The following article says that just 60 centimeters (two feet) of sea level rise will disrupt Miami's fresh water supplies.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8638061.html

Hopefully that committee will tackle the important question of sea level rise and focus on the validity of Wanless' research. E.g., it should be a simple factual calculation to determine if Wanless is correct that the current RATE of sea level rise is doubling every 7-8 years. See post 11 in this thread.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/saras...-region-2.html

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...elizabeth-rush

Most Americans forget how a House Committee report can powerfully influence public opinion. Will Florida's House Republicans really want to sign a minority report that attacks the scientific consensus, especially if they are under age 40 and worried about the future in politics?

At 3 meters of sea level rise, only 9 percent of Miami-Dade County would remain. Similar impacts would be experienced all along Florida's coasts. Do Floridians really want to bet their state on the argument that the scientists are wrong and that an legendary prevaricator like Trump and his legion of know-nothing followers are correct and know more that scientists who actually have studied the empirical data?

[WRnative]

See post 5 in this thread for a further discussion of the projections for sea level rise in southern Florida, especially given massively increasing U.S. production of fossil fuels.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/miami...l#post53737725

[LKJ1988]

No the city is not sinking kitty. But the water is getting higher.

[beach43ofus]

Do you know how many "the end of world" claims I've heard in my lifetime? Many times, they'll even give an exact date. Then, when that date comes and goes, they set a new date. What's your date of doom? What day/month/year will the Clevelander (pardon the pun since you're from filthy Cleveland) Hotel in South Beach be totally submerged?

By the way, your home state of Ohio's causing the sea levels to rise with all its' pollution. US News and World Report published an article based upon a study showing Ohio to be the 3rd worst polluting state in the U.S. behind only Illinois & Louisiana. Florida was shown as the cleanest state for pollution...the Nation's leader. Link provided below: (thx Henry10)

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...al-environment

So, why would a poster from Ohio (a leading polluter), come onto a Florida (pristine clean by comparison) forum topic thread, and parrott all this liberal E-propaganda here? Why aren't you focusing 100% of your efforts on your home state (Ohio) where it's eminating from? Or, maybe Illinois & Louisiana? I find your presence here as being wildly strange.

Solving problems at their source really works, try it some time. Why not picket in front of Ohio's MASSIVE Ethane Cracking plant now under construction. Did you know Ethane is 80 times as dangerous to the environment than the natural gas we burn in our homes? After Ohio's 2 Ethane plants are running, I predict Ohio will surpass Illinois & Louisiana to become USA's leading polluting state.

It's a free Country, & an open forum, but your wasted efforts make even less sense than your posts. Your not convincing anyone. It makes zero diff how many words you type, or links you show, or how many times you repeat them ad nauseum. You're failing miserably, and sounding very strange in the process.

Clean up you own state first, and leave our beautiful state alone. We are all very sorry you are trapped up there in a frigidly cold, polluted, and depressing place. Not our fault.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Harold Wanless, chair of the geological sciences department at the Univ. of Miami, says Miami will experience 3 to 10 meters (10 to 33 feet) of sea level rise by 2100, far more than predicted by the U.N. climate change pane and the Fourth National Climate Assessment.

What makes you think he knows more than the UN scientists and is not influenced by political or personal ideology?

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by WRnative

See post 5 in this thread for a further discussion of the projections for sea level rise in southern Florida, especially given massively increasing U.S. production of fossil fuels.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/miami...l#post53737725

Yeah, massively increasing production of fossil fuels coming from your home state of Ohio...the 3rd worst polluting State in the U.S. according the US News and World Report. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...al-environment

Ohioans need to stop messing up Florida with their fossil fuel production. Ohio should stop production of their 2 MASSIVE Ethane Cracking plants right now. Ethane is 80X more harmful than the natural gas we burn at home. Ohio's doubling down on fossil fuel production. Scroll down and read the last paragraph of this article about the environmental impact issues of these plants..

https://www.constructiondive.com/new...-plant/519101/

And, if you want to really scare the crap out of yourself about Ohio's Ethane Crackers, read this article about the potential enviromental catastrophe that awaits us all when these plants are fired up...

https://www.fractracker.org/2017/02/...thane-cracker/