Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Food and Drink
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-21-2012, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Sunny SoCal
520 posts, read 3,921,712 times
Reputation: 495

Advertisements

Looking to buy an espresso machine for Christmas.
Thing is I know absolutely nothing about these espresso machines.
The more I try to read up and educate myself, the more confused I become.

There are the makers that grind the beans and those that don't grind.
Some steam, other makers do not steam.
Coffee/espresso combo or just a stand alone espresso maker.

The price ranges vary as well. I've seen highly rated makers in the $100s and then other highly rated
makers in the $400s. If I stick to the $300 range, could I buy a machine that is pretty good or do I really
have to spend money on this?

I'm just looking for a machine that will make really good lattes.

Any help?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-21-2012, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,453,984 times
Reputation: 10760
I was a serious coffee geek for many years, though I'm currently in recovery.

I either own, or have owned pretty much every kind of espresso making equipment there is between $20 - $1200. I have bought green coffee beans direct from farmers and roasted them myself. So although I have calmed a bit down in the last few years, I do know a little about the subject.

Different equipment fits different personalities, different needs. The key things I'd ask, in order to help you select the right equipment or machine...

How much coffee do you plan to make, on a daily basis? A couple of shots for a big latte for one person in the morning? Four or five coffees spread throughout the day x2 + more when company comes?

Do you like to have a wide variety of different coffee drinks, or is a latte pretty much all you crave?

Do you have a lot of time to leisurely prepare your beverage in the morning, or do you need Express Lane Service as you rocket off to work?

Do you enjoy experimenting with things, fiddling with recipes, learning precise procedures, and practicing a lot until you get a tricky process right, or would you really rather just be able to push a button and be done with it?

How much room do you have for your gear? Do you need something compact, or do you have room to spread out?

Give me a little more info and I'll make some recommendations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2012, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Sunny SoCal
520 posts, read 3,921,712 times
Reputation: 495
Thanks so much for offering to help out!

From the absolutely very little my wife hinted, here is what I'm working with...

"I'd really like an espresso machine to make my own lattes instead of having to go out and buy one."

I know have to decipher that encrypted message and pick out an espresso machine, LOL.

Coffee would be made on a daily basis, for both her and I. I'm guessing 4-5 cups throughout the day.
(We're both proud coffeeholics)

Lattes is what I know she wants the maker for. I *guess* she could try other coffee drinks but I know she really wants to make lattes.

I have no idea how long these take to make. I'm guessing leisurely? I dunno... Dang these tough questions!!

Wouldn't mind trying out new recipes. Is there a somewhere in between?

As for space, it all depends. Can you suggest a few compact and maybe a few that take space?

Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2012, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,453,984 times
Reputation: 10760
Items to consider...

Time to reach operating temperature.

People who are used to Mr. Coffee type coffee machines rarely consider this factor, but the time it takes for an espresso machine to heat up to operating temperature can vary widely, and can color your experience of them dramatically. My tried and true Nespresso Concept is ready to make a perfect shot in about 1:30 min from a cold start, while my Gaggia SuperAutomatic that grind the beans and packs the coffee and pulls the shot and dumps the grinds and steam cleans everything to get itself ready for the next shot takes more like 8-10 minutes to be wide awake and fully ready to work.

Small, inexpensive machines often take 5 - 10 minutes to get ready to use. Can you wait that long for your morning "juice" or is that just crazy talk? If so, either look for higher powered machines that heat faster, or put them on a timer so they get hot before you need them. Higher power machines also reheat for a second shot faster. My Nespresso is ready instantly. Low powered machines have a bit of wait time.

Steam Powered or Pump Powered?

Inexpensive machines and manual devices use steam generation or a manual pump to build power to press the hot water through the coffee grounds. Contemporary machines use a high powered electric pump to create pressure, and can be used more or less continuously. That's what you want today. It's 2012. The other kinds will frustrate you.

Combo or standalone machines?

My observation is that most combo machines are given as wedding gifts, because they seem practical... 2 for 1, save the counter space, etc. One problem is that until you get into the more expensive models, neither side is anything outstanding. They tend to be just plane Jane basic units... and some only allow you use one side or the other at a time. But worst of all, the lifecycles of coffee pots and espresso machines are so different that invariable one side breaks while the other side is still good, so you wind up adding yet another machine to replace the dead side, OR you ditch the whole thing and replace both units. Better to start with two separate machines if you want both styles of coffee.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2012, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,453,984 times
Reputation: 10760
More items to consider:

Steamed Milk, or Froth?

For a latte, you want espresso shots plus warmed milk. You can warm the milk several ways... 1) steam it, if the espresso machine has a steam wand. 2)warm the milk on the stove or in the microwave 3) use a separate appliance like an Aeroccino, which is purpose-made for the job.

For other espresso beverages like cappuccino a milk froth is used. Again, you need a steam wand, or a frother. The Aeroccino also does this job very well, probably better than the average person with a steam wand.

Conventional or capsule coffee?

One of the hardest things to learn about making espresso is that small variations in coffee grind and measurement and the way it is tamped all can change the way the shot turns out. Professional baristas literally make subtle changes in their grind as the day wears on to adjust for temperature and humidity and barometric changes. Some people find it relatively easy to learn, and to perfect over time. Others find it frustrating and never seem to get the hang of it. For the latter, the capsule systems, such as Nespresso for espresso brewing, and Keurig for conventional brewed coffee are the answer. With the capsule systems you can make a perfect cup the first time, and the 100th time. No wonder they have become such popular systems all over the world.

It's worth a serious look at both approaches to see which seems more compatible with your temperament and lifestyle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2012, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,652 posts, read 6,991,741 times
Reputation: 7323
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
For the latter, the capsule systems, such as Nespresso for espresso brewing, and Keurig for conventional brewed coffee are the answer. With the capsule systems you can make a perfect cup the first time, and the 100th time.
No no no no no no no no no no no NO!

The rest of the post is fine - it's a good thing to understand pumps v. levers, heat exchangers v. separate steam boiler, why the 'four Ms' matter, etc. etc.

But no Nespresso machine gives a perfect espresso (not enough pressure) nor any Kuerig a perfect cup (stale, non-specialty grade coffee).

If the OP wants to be serious about this, first thing is pick up a copy of Scott Rao's book "The Professional Barista's Handbook" which really explains the variables needed to master to pull an exquisite shot or make a great cappuccino.

That said, do not get an espresso machine that includes a grinder. You do not want to deal with cleaning one of those. Buy the grinder separately. A good bet is a Barzata Virtuoso ($229) which can do everything from press pot to espresso. As few people can afford a LaMarzocco GS3 for home use, the best alternative is the Breville Dual Boiler, which is well above your price point at $1200, but is a solid machine that delivers cafe-like results. If you can stretch out your budget a bit you could get yourself a Breville Infuser for around $600, so that plus the grinder makes your purchase $830 or so.

However, if you're not going to be making more than a couple of shots, another good choice is the simple Europiccola lever machine ($400-ish). It looks good, is a bit fussy, but there are a lot of user tips online in the various home barista forums. There are a ton of people out there with low-end machines like the Rancilio Silvia who have entire forums dedicated to their idiosynchrocies. However, you'll find it difficult to make lattes on most of these as their steaming pressure is fine for a 6oz cappuccino but strains for a 12oz or larger latte, IMHO.

Anyway, if none of the above floats your boat, check out home-barista.com or the espresso threads on coffeegeek.com for more info on what people recommend for beginners. Best of luck and hope whatever you buy doesn't end up in your basement storage after a few months!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2012, 08:41 PM
 
Location: On the sunny side of a mountain
3,605 posts, read 9,063,502 times
Reputation: 8269
Take a look at Nespresso, it has 19 bars of pressure which is higher than most, not sure why sskink thinks it's low. The Aerocinno plus that comes with the new U and some of the other models makes great froth, the coffee is sourced from the top 1% in the world and it's very easy to work. Keep and eye out on black friday for specials, there is a specific deal with the coffee pods on that day which is very good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2012, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,453,984 times
Reputation: 10760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogmama50 View Post
Take a look at Nespresso, it has 19 bars of pressure which is higher than most, not sure why sskink thinks it's low. The Aerocinno plus that comes with the new U and some of the other models makes great froth, the coffee is sourced from the top 1% in the world and it's very easy to work. Keep and eye out on black friday for specials, there is a specific deal with the coffee pods on that day which is very good.
Yes, I'm afraid sskink rather made my point about coffee geeks by example. Some people just love all the detail and minutiae and lore and technical specs, and cost is no object, and what's the latest and newest? I used to be such a coffee geek myself. If that approach appeals to you, go for it. It can be a lot of fun.

On the other hand, if you just want what an average person would call a perfect shot of espresso... with a perfect crema the first time and every time... with no muss and no fuss, then the Nespresso system is an excellent way to go. It's been very popular in Europe for a long time, and has become mainstream in the US as well because it is so simple and easy yet with such great results. And there's a broad range of coffee blends to fit a variety of taste preferences. There's a reason Nestle is the top chocolate and coffee in the world, and the excellence of their products is that reason.

Given the OPs total budget of $300, I'd suggest the CITIZ & MILK combo from the list below.

http://www.nespresso-us.com/machines/

And yes, check for specials the day after Thanksgiving. The pods you order direct from Nespresso, the machines are also sold by Sur La Table, Williams-Sonoma, Macy's, bloomingdales's and others.

A note on the Nespresso pods... the coffee is packed with nitrogen in pressurized capsules, so they stay fresh on the shelf exceptionally well. Most dealers supply a sampler kit of different flavors to get you started, and then you reorder from Nespresso.

Last edited by OpenD; 11-22-2012 at 08:40 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2012, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,453,984 times
Reputation: 10760
Conventional Espresso Machines

The challenge for newbies to espresso making is learning to properly grind and measure and tamp the coffee in the portafilter... the part with the big black handle that goes on and off the machine for every shot and holds the ground coffee. It's a balancing act to get all the parameters to line up properly. Some people catch on fairly quickly, but some people never quite get the hang of it. It was that difficulty that led Nestle to develop the Nespresso sealed pod system.

Because of the inroads by Nestle, many of the companies making conventional machines now offer an alternative to the conventional portafilter that is a holder for an open pod system known as ESE (Easy Serve Espresso). I'd describe them as like a teabag for espresso. Illy and other top espresso coffee companies offer them.

Gaggia is one of the top makers of espresso machines, and a number of their machines now come with both portafilter and ESE holders so you have flexibility. Take a look at the Baby Semi-Automatic at $259 on this page... it clearly shows what I'm talking about. Add a steaming pitcher and coffee and a couple of latte cups and you'd be ready to go.

http://www.wholelattelove.com/gaggia...age=2&dir=desc


Grinders

On a $300 budget I don't recommend you try to get a grinder. The $30 grinders with the whirling blade are totally unsuitable for espresso, because you can't control the fineness of the grind to the degree necessary. You'll need a good burr grinder for the purpose, and you can barely get started in those for under $100. So instead you'll either buy the ESE pods in pressurized cans, or you'll buy wholebean coffee and have it ground to appropriate fineness. The tip here is to buy in small quantities... perhaps a week's worth at a time... because coffee beans lose flavor and aroma quickly after being ground.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2012, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,652 posts, read 6,991,741 times
Reputation: 7323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogmama50 View Post
Take a look at Nespresso, it has 19 bars of pressure which is higher than most, not sure why sskink thinks it's low. The Aerocinno plus that comes with the new U and some of the other models makes great froth, the coffee is sourced from the top 1% in the world and it's very easy to work. Keep and eye out on black friday for specials, there is a specific deal with the coffee pods on that day which is very good.
And it tastes NOTHING like a well-pulled freshly-ground shot of espresso.

It's up to the OP what he wants in terms of value/expense/taste, but most people don't get into home brewing to make crappy beer, nor home winemaking to make crappy wine. YMMV.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Food and Drink
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top