Occupy Fort Myers, or don't. (mortgage, credit, limo)

[prairie360]

Originally Posted by Izmack

First, that 100K figure is designed to inflame in its extreme versus give a broader overall picture of an average teacher salary, which is 43K nationwide.

Negative. It's from the New York Dept. of Education website, not exactly a bastion of Tea Party activity.

Second - and I take this right from the article you did - "The {100K} salaries, among the highest in the country, are paid only to the most experienced teachers, with the most education, in an area where the cost of living is notoriously high."

Again, misleading because Nassau and Suffolk counties are 2 and 3 respectively as the highest real estate taxes in the country and yes those figures are for tenured teachers... All of them.

Third, teachers can only teach to students who have a priority to learn. Over and over, teachers are singlehandedly blamed for the lack of success in a system in which the odds are stacked far against them from the moment of a child's birth. I recommend you speak to a taecher in Philadelphia or Baltimore or Detriot or any number of the big cities to see how that deck is stacked.

I agree with you there.

People love to spout on topics they know nothing of....15% of families in this country fall below the "poverty" line of 24K for a family of four. When is the last time you tried to raise 2 kids on 24K? Why don't you try teaching those kids for just a week? We can then see how good you do and debate the merits of your salary.

I'm not asking you to pay for my Masters degree am I? When I served in the military, did I ask the taxpayers to pay for my off base housing?
And more bad news for you. The number of people in poverty increased over the last three years, more the all then previous years combined since the Great Depression. As I said, there's plenty of blame to go around. You may not like my quoted numbers but they are factually correct and I don't see anything you've produced to counter them.

[Izmack]

Originally Posted by prairie360

If it's such an ignorant statement, then perhaps you could enlighten me as why it's virtually impossible to fire a teacher in NYC, even those teachers with a child abuse criminal record?

Do you make it a habit to focus in on isolated inflammatory statistics?

Why don't we look at the record? At least 15 high schools in the greater NY metropolitan area - the area you are complaining about teacher salaries - earned a place in the top 100 US high schools in terms of academic rating.

In case you cannot figure that percentage: Out of all schools in the US, 15% of the schools on the best of the best list came from the NY metropolitan area in which teachers were paid an "extreme" salary.

Gold Medal Schools - US News and World Report

That, plus living in one of the highest economic brackets in the country = you get what you pay for.

[Izmack]

Originally Posted by prairie360

Negative. It's from the New York Dept. of Education website, not exactly a bastion of Tea Party activity.

Again, misleading because Nassau and Suffolk counties are 2 and 3 respectively as the highest real estate taxes in the country and yes those figures are for tenured teachers... All of them.

I agree with you there.

I'm not asking you to pay for my Masters degree am I? When I served in the military, did I ask the taxpayers to pay for my off base housing?
And more bad news for you. The number of people in poverty increased over the last three years, more the all then previous years combined since the Great Depression. As I said, there's plenty of blame to go around. You may not like my quoted numbers but they are factually correct and I don't see anything you've produced to counter them.

Your quoted numbers are taken in isolation of the bigger picture. Synthesizing it down to your original comment that teachers are paid 100K in Nassau and Suffolk - it was designed to inflame and one needs to look a little closer for details and results - something you clearly find trouble with.

[prairie360]

Originally Posted by Izmack

Do you make it a habit to focus in on isolated inflammatory statistics?

Why don't we look at the record? At least 15 high schools in the greater NY metropolitan area - the area you are complaining about teacher salaries - earned a place in the top 100 US high schools in terms of academic rating.

In case you cannot figure that percentage: Out of all schools in the US, 15% of the schools on the best of the best list came from the NY metropolitan area in which teachers were paid an "extreme" salary.

Gold Medal Schools - US News and World Report

That, plus living in one of the highest economic brackets in the country = you get what you pay for.

The problem with your argument is that people are moving out of those "You get what you pay for" counties because they can't afford the real estate taxes. NY state lost, an average of 49,000 taxpayers per year, in the last three years and Florida replaced NY as the third most important House representative state. Are you seeing the pattern yet?
They are forcing the middle class, people just like you and me, out of the counties. Where will that leave the children decades from now? I'm saying your vision is short sighted, IMHO.

[prairie360]

Originally Posted by Izmack

Your quoted numbers are taken in isolation of the bigger picture. Synthesizing it down to your original comment that teachers are paid 100K in Nassau and Suffolk - it was designed to inflame and one needs to look a little closer for details and results - something you clearly find trouble with.

Prove me wrong because I don't see you searching all that hard... I suspect we agree more then disagree my friend. I just don't think the teacher's union primary focus is on students but much more on their memberships interests.
Are you going to call me ignorant for that opinion, when the facts I live with suggest otherwise?

[prairie360]

Originally Posted by Izmack

Synthesizing it down to your original comment that teachers are paid 100K in Nassau and Suffolk - it was designed to inflame and one needs to look a little closer for details and results - something you clearly find trouble with.

Because I live in, and pay taxes in, Nassau county. Do you?

And it gets worse. You might appreciate this. A typical Superintendent, say of the parking lot (No I'm not making this up) is north of $200K per year. And guess what? They have their own unions too!
Fully 70% of my total real estate tax bill is for the schools. Right there in black and white. And in NY, when a school budget is voted down, which is rare, no doesn't really mean no. After three re-votes, an automatic "austerity budget" kicks in. The budget is increased by the rate of inflation. And they start cutting after school programs. Nice gig huh?

I wouldn't mind paying for good, dedicated teachers. And I'm sure the vast majority of them are just that. But our kids are failing and they have to compete with the rest of the world, whether we like it or not... For many reasons they're failing, but frankly, the unions need to accept some blame. The Japanese spend more time in a school year and I think that's something most of us could agree would be a positive step. Another is not pushing along kids that aren't doing the work. And the parents should demand more of their kids. Homework should be a couple of hours worth, not a few minutes worth.

Anything I've said "ignorant"?

[rikoshaprl]

Originally Posted by hiknapster

It's very easy for a retiree from a union job to tsk, tsk and casually throw around the "boot straps" platitudes. Ever notice that the biggest gripers about unions and government are their own workers? How about those folks sit around fat and happy while the rest of us - I'm a small business owner - exercise their right to assemble and free speech? Okey doke?

My wife and I are both small business owners. I have a pension after working for 37 years that doesn't even pay my food bill. Most of the people that started Occupy Wall Street are college graduates, many complaining about their college loans. (I paid for my own college.) The unemployment rate for college graduates is only 4%. There is still opportunity in this county even with the policies of the past three years that have kept businesses from investing.

If you are not going to help yourself who is going to do it? The government? Don't hold your breath.

Who said not to exercise your free speech. You can go with the Occupy folks, I'll go with the Tea Party.

I believe there is a need for private company unions, just not government worker unions, the same as FDR.

[Samiamnh]

NY teachers that are unfit to teach are allowed to languish in spare rooms,doing crosswords and napping,as they wait to retire with salary and excellent health package,all paid for by us private sector working slobs......in the private sector they would be fired.......it's disgraceful.

[prairie360]

Originally Posted by rikoshaprl

My wife and I are both small business owners. I have a pension after working for 37 years that doesn't even pay my food bill. Most of the people that started Occupy Wall Street are college graduates, many complaining about their college loans. (I paid for my own college.) The unemployment rate for college graduates is only 4%. There is still opportunity in this county even with the policies of the past three years that have kept businesses from investing.

If you are not going to help yourself who is going to do it? The government? Don't hold your breath.

Who said not to exercise your free speech. You can go with the Occupy folks, I'll go with the Tea Party.

I believe there is a need for private company unions, just not government worker unions, the same as FDR.

Well said Riko.

[Izmack]

Originally Posted by prairie360

Because I live in, and pay taxes in, Nassau county. Do you?

Aha! I guess they should be paid 50K and not afford to live in their own school district...is that it?

You choose to live in one of the best areas in the country for public schooling. If you'd like to have lower school taxes, there's always Alabama...

And that's just it: The kids (and teachers) are NOT failing on Long Island. So, you are complaining about subsidizing a successful system. Hmmm.

Once it finally dawns on you Tea Partiers what a lack of government services really means, it'll be interesting. This "I've got mine and everyone else be damned" attitude really is something to be ashamed of, particularly when this conversation began over the Occupy folks. It's OK for these Wall Street investment bankers to make billions creating nothing, but let a teacher ask for anything more than a living wage and there's hell to pay. Really skewed thinking...