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Can you tell us more about living in Portugal? Adjustment, COL, what you like and dislike the most vs the US?
I am not Kevxu but I think I can aswer that.
I am portuguese and I am currently living in the US for the past 2 years.
Portugal is in my opinion cheap. Because the country is not that big in terms of area, it has a high level of infra structure and technology.
Internet, TV and cellphones are super cheap (24 dollars for 200 Mbps fiber optics internet + Cable TV - mostly american channels and such - and IP Phone).
Cell phone you can have unlimited plans for 20 USD as well.
Food is mostly cheap as well. Top of the line beef cuts are around 15 dollars a kilo, where in the US a prime Ribeye or even filet mignon is probably triple of that.
Fish is abundant and cheaper of course probably halft the price of lower. Sea food is cheaper as well... while here in the US I buy 25 clams for 14$ at the supermarket in Portugal I can buy 2.2 pounds for less that 3 dollars.
Public transportation is cheap. 30-40 USD a month and you have unlimited access to subway-buses and such (this of course in cities that have them).
Accomodation in Lisbon - which is probably the most expensive real estate youll find in Portugal is also cheap in my opinion.
Rents are around 800 USD in a very nice neighbourhood for a 3 bedroom 1400 sq feet apartment. Of course like anything you can find all types of prices. You can also find 1 bedroom apartments for 1 million dollars. It all depends on the neighboorhood and the type of upscale you want in the amenities.
However, normal houses can be had for around 200k. If you search reasonably well, even though you will live in building or apartments, a lot of apartments in Lisbon if they are ground level or 1st floor, have backyards. These backyards are highly valued. They can range from 300 sq feet to some around 1500 sq feet - expect to pay a little premium on those since outdoor space is now being highly valued.
Medical expenses are cheap. Even without insurance if you undergo private care, you pay for a Cat scan for example 180 USD (without insurance) if with insurance for example you pay 10 USD or so.
Shopping malls ... portuguese put american shopping malls to a corner. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your perspective, during the 80s and 90s portuguese enterpreneurs seemeded to be on a race of whomever builds the biggest is the best brand around.
So, you have plenty of shopping malls around. Colombo for example at the time when it was built was the biggest in Europe. It's pleasant to go there actually... I find that american malls are different as in most of them dont have a food area per se. Portuguese malls have a full food section usually outdoors in these shopping malls where dozens of little restaurants (some fast food such as mcdonalds and such) but lots of mom and pops little bistros sell their traditional food.
One thing i like better as well is the bigger outlets. Here in the US you have a huge parking lot and then the stores are built in the outter perimeter of the "plaza". This makes walking around cumbersome.
In Portugal, you have Freeport or other type of outlets where indeed there is a huge parking lot, but then the stores per se are built in little streets where you can walk around - i like this way better. Malls/outlets are built with recreation in mind where you can stroll and at same time being a nice place to just walk around even.
In terms of driving around, Portugal along with Spain has probably one of the best highway networks in the world.
The only thing that gets pricey is indeed the price of gasoline which is highly taxed.
Most of these things I mention are regarding a Lisbon lifestyle. If you go out of Lisbon, then prices go much lower.
There is a big expat community in West coast of Alentejo and Algarve. Prices there, depending, are much cheaper in terms of RE and other costs. Although you may not have as much diversity on things to do as in a big city.
Things I have noticed that are cheaper in the US than in Portugal:
- Electronics such as phones, computers and so forth.
- Beauty cremes and perfumes
- Chicken, turkey and sometimes pork meat
- Gasoline
- Electricity
- Natural gas
- New cars (used vehicles i find them extremely expensive here in the US... however new car prices are cheaper in US than in Portugal)
- money is cheaper (by this i mean there is much more competition with banks and there are a lot of types of loan the US offers that are not common in Portugal - HELOCs come to mind)
I live in a Mediterranean climate zone (California) and like them very much, so I'd just assume live in one myself. I have to say I like California's climate better than Croatia's, though. It's sunnier here, a bit warmer in winter and not as hot in summer. Croatia's coast does look beautiful, though; and the Mediterranean has warmer water.
I've lived on the southern CA coast and the climate is very nice. North of the the Bay area though it gets quite gloomy and wet in winter, and farther inland there is a lot of smog and summer heat.
I prefer the climate where I live now to anyplace in the US besides the S CA coast. The high elevation areas in southern TX, NM, and AZ are pretty mild and winters are sunny with most rainfall in the summer. For instance our Jan high is 50F and July 82F. If you go south into Mexico or further (to Ecuador and Peru) , the mountain areas can be very mild with little year round temperature variation.
If I retired overseas, I would miss the following in America:
Movie Theatres
Large Shopping Centers
Golf Courses
Libraries
Bowling Alleys
Nice Parks with trails
A common language that most people speak, that I do too!
Ability to get in my car and drive to all kinds of interesting places
All the great restaurants (Including fast casual American chains they don't have overseas)
Great Healthcare
American Cable TV
Fast and reliable Internet
Adult Education classes
To me, I would have to save thousands of dollars to give up those things!
Most of these things can be easily found overseas.
You go into a large mall in SE Asia and you'll find McDonalds, KFC, Swensons, Pizza Hut, Sizzler, Dairy Queen, Dunkin Donuts, Subway, etc. Burger King is around but less frequently. The mall will be air conditioned and clean, great place to escape the heat. There are plenty of other fast casual chains that aren't as common in the US like The Pizza Company, MLK ,and several sushi chains.
My wife and I have watched popular American movies played in original English soundtrack in Taiwan, The Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, and Myanmar. The theaters are cinemaplexes and with exception of Myanmar are modern theaters that show 3D as well. The only weirdness is standing for King's Anthem in Thailand before every movie and a lot more glow of cell phones during film.
There are also bowling alleys, nice parks with trails, you can get on your scooter and drive to interesting places, countries like Thailand and Malaysia offer excellent medical care for cheap and are often destination of medical tourists.
Internet = depends. Have had issues in Myanmar and Laos.
I don't golf but I know there are golf courses you can see 'em from tall buildings.
And a lot are not. I watch a lot of ex-pat YouTube videos from the Philippines and Thailand and it seems to me that a lord of the ex-pats are folks with limited resources other than a small government pension who are looking for a way to live cheaply.
If you are looking at shows like House Hunters International, you would get the impression that most ex-pats have millions.
This. The overwhelming majority of expats we've encountered (they tend to cluster in certain areas of Thailand, The Philippines, Malaysia, etc.) are older single guys living on a modest pension/social security income. There are lots of older couples in similar financial situation, but overwhelming majority are old white dudes.
they would not be in the Philippines or Thailand if they have sizeable retirement, would they?
It depends. Someone might have a sizable retirement but still find living beachfront and eating out three meals per day isn't doable in the United States, but can be done in someplace like The Philippines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
There are English speaking doctors in many places. You can always create horror scenarios anywhere you go, including the U.S. I have a friend who believes in European style socialized medicine and he always cherry picks the horror stories from the U.S. to support his point of view. I do tend to agree, though, that I think retiring to other countries is probably best for younger and healthier retirees.
My wife recently went for annual ladyparts exams in Chiang Mai. We walked to hospital without appointment, checked in, she was getting initial screening (temp/weight/bp/etc.) within 15 minutes, and entire process took two hours.
Full exam, mammogram, chest ultrasound, pap smear, and lab work = $70 cash. Doctor was professional, spoke English, and degree on wall said UCLA. She said they used same equipment as in the US, and in the US they wouldn't have even done the ultrasound unless something showed suspicious in the mammogram but in Thailand was included as part of exam.
There are all sorts of westerners in Thailand hospitals getting things like prostate surgery, hip replacements, etc.
I got a feeling a good portion of them are taking advantage of the bargain rate brothels...
Pretty much. Somewhat gray area on whether really prostitution in the traditional sense of the word, more like they usually have a much younger local girlfriend they met at a bar who benefits greatly from said pension check. She's sleeping in air conditioning, eating out at nicer places, has some nice jewelry he's bought her, he helped out financially with whatever (possibly manufactured) crisis happened to her family, that kind of stuff.
Hell some areas (like Udon Thani) we felt like we were the only foreigners in town that weren't an old white guy with younger Thai chick.
Also = I'm not advocating retiring overseas, I agree with the person that said it is a lifestyle choice more than a financial one.
There is no doubt you can live in SE Asia for cheaper than similar standard of living in the United States, despite some things (like electronics) being more expensive. You could do this with a nice apartment, eating out a hell of a lot more, and occasionally treating yourself to western indulgences. However there are a lot of frustrations that come with it, your mileage may vary on happiness.
This. The overwhelming majority of expats we've encountered (they tend to cluster in certain areas of Thailand, The Philippines, Malaysia, etc.) are older single guys living on a modest pension/social security income. There are lots of older couples in similar financial situation, but overwhelming majority are old white dudes.
I think that there is a new industry in Chang Mai - nursing homes for elderly Australians who are looking for more affordable care.
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