Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am a NYer born and raised in both Manhattan, and Queens. I would like to relocate in approximately 18 months from now. I’m a mid-level web developer, mostly dealing with project management. My husband has had many trades and is currently working as a customer service rep for a major utility. So we have a very standard middle-class income. Unfortunately, living in NYC on this kind of income puts one into the lower middle class as far as buying power.
We have wanted to relocate for many years, but various factors have made it hard for us. Just coming up with seed money to make a move is a challenge.
I’m looking for recommendations on where we should move, especially from born/bred New Yorkers who have done this.
They all look great for varying reasons, at least on paper. But I’d like to here first hand feed back.
A little bit more about us:
We are in our late 30’s with a young child who will be three when we contemplate moving.
Our ideal quality life is:
Weather
Mild weather. I really don’t like harsh winters, and there are times that NY can be pretty harsh. My husband hates the heat, but said he’s willing to live with it so long as there is a/c everywhere we go.
We would like to do more outdoorsy activities. It’s pretty prohibitive to do so in this region unless you own a car, and are willing to drive pretty far away to do it. Some of those activities include swimming, hiking, biking, skiing.
We like the change of season, and know that there may not be any place with perfect weather, so we may have to compromise.
People
Nice friendly people, with diverse backgrounds and open minds. (This is the ideal..)
I love the friendliness of semi-small towns, as long as it isn’t too small. So a suburb outside a major city with cosmopolitan amenities including restaurants, arts and other culture. It shouldn’t be longer than 40-60 minutes away,.
Housing
Should be plentiful and of decent quality. We would like to be able to buy property one day, and just can’t afford $550K for a starter house. The rental stock should be abundant and spacious, as well as reasonably maintained. (NYC housing is really poor.)
Jobs and Economy
There should be a variety of work available and good job growth potential. I don’t care that much about taxes or home appreciation. I care about being able to live the “American Dream” on an average American salary.
How do the salaries compare to the cost of living? How do they compare to places like "Salary.com". Does it reflect reality?
Well, I'm by no means a New Yorker, but many of those who hail from the Big Apple seem to be acclimating quite well to Northeastern Pennsylvania. I helped one ex-Brooklyn gal, MemoriesBre, relocate with her husband to the quaint country town of Tunkhannock, PA, and she can't stop singing the praises of what a smart move it was for them. HomeAgainInWestPittston is another ex-New Yorker who recently moved to Luzerne County with her daughter after tiring of the Wall Street rat-race, and she now seems to be enjoying a more laid-back lifestyle in the Mayberry-like community of West Pittston, PA. ScrantonVideoProductions recently settled in Scranton's Hill Section with his wife, and he's a native of Williamsburg, Brooklyn. These are just three of throngs of New Yorkers who have been finding NEPA to be the perfect blend of a quieter pace of life, lower crime, lower-cost-of-living, and friendlier faces while still only being two hours from Manhattan to visit friends and family.
To address your concerns individually, I'll have to say that we get an "F" for your weather preference. If you think winters in Queens are harsh, then you're not at all going to enjoy the moutains of PA very much. For what it's worth, we usually get all of our snow dumped onto us in just a few seasonal storms, and the outdoor winter recreation around here (skiing, snowmobiling, snow-tubing, ice-fishing, etc.) is outstanding. If you are willing to accept the fact that our area does have four seasons (including winter), then you'd probably enjoy it here.
Next, housing affordability gets a "A+" in my grade book. One need only drive 90 minutes away to NJ, NY, or the Lehigh Valley to see just how expensive housing prices can be while a newer-construction, 2,500-square foot, 3-bedroom, 2.5-bath home on a 1/3-acre lot with a two-car garage and a backyard pool in our area will probably run you a mere $300,000 and annual property taxes of $4,000 in comparison to North Jersey, where a similar home might be around $750,000 with annual property taxes of $9,000. Large, stately Victorians, Greek Revivals, and Tudors in established Scranton neighborhoods can run you upwards of $1,000,000 in a few cases, with most ranging around $400,000-$600,000. An older, smaller home with 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, 1,500 square feet, a 2-car detached garage, and a 50' x 150' standard city lot might run you anywhere from $75,000-$150,000, depending on the condition of the property. If you can't afford to purchase a home in NEPA even on one decent income, then you've obviously done a poor job with financial planning.
The people in NEPA are what they are. On the plus side they are quite friendly overall, morally-upstanding, and always willing to go the extra mile to help one another in times of need. However, "diversity" isn't a word that I would use in the same sentence in our predominantly Caucasian, heterosexual, Christian area. Monroe County is becoming extremely diverse from all of the newcomers from the city, but Scranton/Wilkes-Barre and its surroundings remain more closely-aligned with the demographics of a medium-sized Midwestern city as opposed to an outlying exurb of NYC. With that said, I'm a gay male who is friends with an African-American and a few Asian-Americans, and none of us ever experience hostility from the natives. I think we're so horribly WHITE simply because minorities haven't found their way to our area yet; it's not because they aren't welcomed.
As far as the economy is concerned, this could go either way. All I ever hear from the locals is "there's no good jobs", "there's no good jobs", "there's no jobs." However, the roadways around here are littered with Nissan Armadas, BMWs, Range Rovers, GMC Yukon Denalis, and other $30,000+ vehicles, and thousands of McMansion-style homes in the $300,000-$500,000 range are currently under construction throughout the region, indicating that there are indeed great career opportunities to be had here in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre for those with the appropriate qualifications (i.e. a college degree or skilled physical trade). I suspect that most of these people who whine for years about being unable to secure employment only possess a high school diploma and no other marketable skills, in which case I don't have much sympathy for them; if you want to move upward in social standing, then you have to WORK for it! I can think of dozens of local couples who are all living upper-middle-class lifestyles in NEPA, including my parents (I/T specialist and retail management), sister and brother-in-law (secondary English teacher and electrical engineer), next-door neighbors (CPA and RN), other neighbors (real estate executives), best friend's family (podiatrist), etc. Too many locals expect great jobs to just fall into their laps instead of preparing themselves to meet the expectations of a prospective new employer. I'd also urge you to do a Google search for "Wall Street West" if you are interested in NEPA, as thousands of white-collar jobs are soon expected to be coming to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, the Poconos, and Lehigh Valley as NYC financial firms establish back offices here to continue smooth operations in the likely event of another power failure in Manhattan, or even a second terrorist attack.
As I said, other than the not-so "mild" weather you mentioned, this area probably offers quite a bit of what you might be looking for. You can try sending a PM to those aforementioned former NYC members who now live in our area for more help, or you can also post an inquiry on the NEPA sub-forum of the PA forum, as we'd all be happy to help!
Well, I'm by no means a New Yorker, but many of those who hail from the Big Apple seem to be acclimating quite well to Northeastern Pennsylvania.
My bone with PA was that most of those moneyed folks you speak of, with the fancy cars, get on a bus, or rail and commute for two hours each direction into Manhattan.
I definitely do not want a commute of four hours a day.
Our weather requirements, are not nearly requirements as much as they are commentary. In my opinion, I can't think of any place that has decent weather in the whole US, except for some places in CA, that are far to expensive.
Born in Manhattan. Raised in Manhattan till I was 12. Moved to Queens. Lived in Brooklyn.
Sounds like a nice life, what part of Manhattan?
And, according to what you claim to be looking for, I would recommend these cities:
Dallas-Fort Worth (there is somewhat of a change in seasons; tailor-made city, there's almost nothing it doesn't have; probably your best choice; very spread out)
Atlanta (southern hospitality feel, for the most part; you'll probably be lacking a lot of urban/cosmopolitan ammenities that are available in NY)
Chicagoland (although, you said you preferred no harsh winters; great suburbs)
Houston (four seasons are only occasional; often times there's a spot of fall in the summer, winter in the fall, spring in the winter, and summer from April to September except for this year of course; sprawl like hell outside the central city; great suburbs; class ammenities , but you'll have to drive)
Cleveland (hey, I like it)
Miami (also many many class ammenities; sticky)
Seeing as your home is New York, I love Old Man Winter, so I would have picked Chicagoland because you're not going to find much New York in these other cities. Houston and Miami are about as cosmopolitan, though.
My bone with PA was that most of those moneyed folks you speak of, with the fancy cars, get on a bus, or rail and commute for two hours each direction into Manhattan.
I definitely do not want a commute of four hours a day.
Our weather requirements, are not nearly requirements as much as they are commentary. In my opinion, I can't think of any place that has decent weather in the whole US, except for some places in CA, that are far to expensive.
Agreed. We're becoming a region replete with corporate "power-commuters." Monroe County's population has grown by 70,000 in recent years, Pike County is the fastest-growing county in the entire state, and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre has just begun to pick up new residents as well; I'm thinking that the upcoming commuter rail line from NEPA to NYC will only make these hellish long-distance commuters marginally better.
I lived in Noho when it was still called Chinatown. Then when I was a little older, I lived in the East Village when it was still called the Lower East Side.
Quote:
Dallas-Fort Worth (there is somewhat of a change in seasons; tailor-made city, there's almost nothing it doesn't have; probably your best choice; very spread out)
I hard great things about it.
Quote:
Atlanta (southern hospitality feel, for the most part; you'll probably be lacking a lot of urban/cosmopolitan ammenities that are available in NY)
I have an aunt there and a lot of relatives in within 8 hours drive. (there are lots of regular long weekends with our southern relations, something we don't participate being up in NY due to distance.)
Quote:
Chicagoland (although, you said you preferred no harsh winters; great suburbs)
I know I would like it even if I don't love winter.
Quote:
Houston (four seasons are only occasional; often times there's a spot of fall in the summer, winter in the fall, spring in the winter, and summer from April to September except for this year of course; sprawl like hell outside the central city; great suburbs; class ammenities , but you'll have to drive)
I pretty much have to start driving almost anywhere I live. I heard nice things about Houston.
Quote:
Cleveland (hey, I like it)
?
Quote:
Miami (also many many class ammenities; sticky)
No - Florida is out for so many reasons.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I helped one ex-Brooklyn gal, MemoriesBre, relocate with her husband to the quaint country town of Tunkhannock, PA, and she can't stop singing the praises of what a smart move it was for them. HomeAgainInWestPittston is another ex-New Yorker who recently moved to Luzerne County with her daughter after tiring of the Wall Street rat-race, and she now seems to be enjoying a more laid-back lifestyle in the Mayberry-like community of West Pittston, PA. ScrantonVideoProductions recently settled in Scranton's Hill Section with his wife, and he's a native of Williamsburg, Brooklyn. These are just three of throngs of New Yorkers who have been finding NEPA to be the perfect blend of a quieter pace of life, lower crime, lower-cost-of-living, and friendlier faces while still only being two hours from Manhattan to visit friends and family. 
For what it's worth, we usually get all of our snow dumped onto us in just a few seasonal storms, and the outdoor winter recreation around here (skiing, snowmobiling, snow-tubing, ice-fishing, etc.) is outstanding. If you are willing to accept the fact that our area does have four seasons (including winter), then you'd probably enjoy it here.
Large, stately Victorians, Greek Revivals, and Tudors in established Scranton neighborhoods can run you upwards of $1,000,000 in a few cases, with most ranging around $400,000-$600,000. An older, smaller home with 3 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, 1,500 square feet, a 2-car detached garage, and a 50' x 150' standard city lot might run you anywhere from $75,000-$150,000, depending on the condition of the property. If you can't afford to purchase a home in NEPA even on one decent income, then you've obviously done a poor job with financial planning. 
I'd also urge you to do a Google search for "Wall Street West" if you are interested in NEPA, as thousands of white-collar jobs are soon expected to be coming to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, the Poconos, and Lehigh Valley as NYC financial firms establish back offices here to continue smooth operations in the likely event of another power failure in Manhattan, or even a second terrorist attack. 
North Eastern PA
