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I've always thought that - at least the census department definition - of Mid-Atlantic included New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Delaware. Only those 4.
From Maryland on down, it's The South.
The cultural definition is, of course, different, but culturally one ubiquitous South is a fiction at this late date - Maryland, DC, Northern Virginia, South Florida don't fit culturally even though they do geographically. And there's a world of difference between Raleigh, New Orleans, Charleston WV, Charleston SC, Orlando and Annapolis, which are all geographically Southern, but there the similarity ends.
This is evident in NC. NC is like 3 or 4 states in one. Again, there's a world of difference between Mitchell County (deeply Appalachian), Cary or Chapel Hill (which have a comfortable Mid-Atlantic feel; Chapel Hill - at least economically - seems hell-bent on becoming the Marin County of the South), Kinston (swampy Eastern NC, economically depressed, and as southern as Mississippi), and Nags Head (basically, a tourist trap for people from the DC area). There within the same state you have 4 areas which have little in common apart from geographically being located in the same state.
Actually, the Census Bureau considers Delaware to be in the South Atlantic division, not Mid-Atlantic.
Exatly this is the most weirdest conversation to be brought up on the NC forum and for some reason it happens quite often??. I' was born in North AL and lived there for 16 years. Ive also lived in SC for 5 NC for 6 and MD where i currently live for the moment. The Bram73 fellow has not only presented video evidence but has stated the truest fact out of everybody. If you look at this not only geographically you will find that historiacally speaking you will never find a letter refering to NC as the mid atlantic. Never!! The southbound guy's stuff shows a germen influence from PA. In Alabama we have germen ancestors. He's talking about old buildings the State Capitol! Building in Montgomery AL was built by Philidelphia PA people and trust me i know some people in bama with family from PA. We have similar architecture to PA in parts of AL im pretty sure of it. If thats the logic being used here then Alabama is both mid-atlantic and the south. connections does not make a state what it is. For example in NC i lived in the Shelby area and I'm telling you that i know all about the NC german and PA influence. He said that those people in where he lives in the piedmont said they felt like it was the mid atlantic and not the south he lied!!!!!!! I know the shelby area and i know exatly how they act he said the older people said that yea right!! Shelby knows they live in the south and knows that they are southeners. My friends from shelby had some thick southern accents and o yea guess what the bram73 guy was right again people in SC eat livermush!! Its even in the grocery stores and i grew to like it myself while living in SC. Sure the PA and PA dutch influence is in NC but that does not make it the mid atlantic.
NC isn't the Deep South. But it sure is undoubtedly Southern. It's not borderline-Southern, or debatable-Southern in the same sense like Texas and Florida, in which those 2 states are being constantly debated for their "Southerness", do to there history and constant growing outside influences, but NC it does seem more "like" mid-Atlantic states like VA, MD, DE, etc, and it seems "different" than Miss, AL, LA, etc. When I 1st moved to NC from Austin, I didn't really notice the difference between NC and other Southern states, the longer I lived here, the more I noticed it's differences with the states below it.
NC isn't the Deep South. But it sure is undoubtedly Southern. It's not borderline-Southern, or debatable-Southern in the same sense like Texas and Florida, in which those 2 states are being constantly debated for their "Southerness", do to there history and constant growing outside influences, but NC it does seem more "like" mid-Atlantic states like VA, MD, DE, etc, and it seems "different" than Miss, AL, LA, etc. When I 1st moved to NC from Austin, I didn't really notice the difference between NC and other Southern states, the longer I lived here, the more I noticed it's differences with the states below it.
I think most people who say that have the most experience with the Piedmont Crescent area, which is the swath from the Triangle to metro Charlotte. And that's understandable, because that region is pretty much the "face" of NC because it's the most populous and fastest-growing, but there's more to the state than that. Eastern NC (pretty much the area east of I-95) has something of a deep South feel, and western NC is pure Appalachia like north GA, east TN, southwest VA, WV, etc. (although Asheville may be something of an exception culturally, to an extent).
In Southern Politics In State and Nation VO Key plays on the old adage, coined by either Zebulon Vance or Alexander Hamilton depending on who you ask, of the "vale of humility between two mountains of conceit", calling NC a "progressive plutocracy" as opposed to the still largely pre-industrial, quasi-feudal societies of much of the rest of the south. This was back in the late 40s, so the notion of NC as not quite as "southern" as other states nearby isn't a new idea.
That was only from an industry standpoint, not so much in the way of culture. Correct me if I'm wrong. What would make it much more different back then, then say, Virginia which is much closer to the North? Nice quote though.
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North Carolina is the Southeast beyond debate, and is part of the Upper South, an area that I say constitutes Kentucky, West Virginia, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Arkansas. Potentially Oklahoma depending on how far west you want to stretch that definition.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nep321
Actually, the Census Bureau considers Delaware to be in the South Atlantic division, not Mid-Atlantic.
The Mason-Dixon line IMO is too far north. Maryland and Delaware, and also D.C., have much more in common today with Pennsylvania and New Jersey than with Virginia. The ideal Mason-Dixon line should be the Kansas-Oklahoma border, snaking across far southern Missouri to the Ohio River, to the Pennsylvania and West Virginia to Maryland-Virginia border. That's the most accurate cultural and climatalogical representation of it I can describe.
North Carolina is a southern state to me. Why are we discussing this? I can see the mid atlantic part since NC, VA, & MD are in the "middle". Those states are south atlantic. NC is without a doubt southern. I am a bama girl and I know what is southern and what is not. Yes NC VA & MD are in the south atlantic, end of story. No ones opinion cannot change were these states are geographically located.
I also hate it when people say well they have such and such in new jersey, does that make them southern too? NJ represents a small part of the whole northeast.. Can someone explain this to me? Say BBQ in NJ and they will think you mean grilling outside. Bojangles is mainly in the south that serves SOUTHERN foods with only ONE location and I mean ONE location in PA, yeah so that makes bojangles "northern food" all of a sudden?
The Mason Dixon line should start around the DC area and extend into parts of Missouri, kentucky West VA, Oklahoma and Texas. The south is my home and I am biased to it being my favorite region I hate to see people rip pieces of it apart just because of their opinion. If people dont see NC VA & MD(Nc especially) as being even remotely southern then they should not even be debating on what is southern and what is not southern. Next people will be saying that michigan and ohio are southern states.
Exatly what I'm saying people living in the piedmont and I'm not talking rural piedmont or the triad which is a great example of how southern city sholud be IMO but im talking about the charlotte and raleigh area sure it will feel like a mixture of all cultures but what huge city isnt. Charlotte does have a nice southern charm about it but check these videos out. The south is so diverse!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFfM2GMr3lIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0D1Q...el_video_title
Last edited by bram73; 09-27-2011 at 01:24 PM..
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NJ represents a small part of the whole northeast.. Can someone explain this to me? Say BBQ in NJ and they will think you mean grilling outside. Bojangles is mainly in the south that serves SOUTHERN foods with only ONE location and I mean ONE location in PA, yeah so that makes bojangles "northern food" all of a sudden? 
