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Perhaps a better test than Jim Crow would be if the state experienced the first phase of KKK activity, which started at the end of the war and lasted until the mid-1870's.
States with the most lynchings of blacks [1882 to 1968]:
1. Mississippi
2. Georgia
3. Texas
4. Louisiana
5. Alabama
6. Florida
7. Arkansas
8. Tennessee
9. South Carolina
10. Kentucky
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States with the most lynchings of blacks [1882 to 1968]:
1. Mississippi
2. Georgia
3. Texas
4. Louisiana
5. Alabama
6. Florida
7. Arkansas
8. Tennessee
9. South Carolina
10. Kentucky
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Hate groups in America: Hate Map | Southern Poverty Law Center
That list is absolutely worthless. I know you don't think they were all documented.
Is the official measurement of a state's "Southerness" the number of lynchings that took place within its borders? Is that something worth arguing about?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobilee
The first phase of KKK activity went into Kentucky, West Virginia and Virginia, as stated by Nathan Bedford Forrest in a newspaper interview in 1868.
I guess you learn something new everyday. But there is certainly no question that the KKK activity was the most intense in the Deep and Mid-South. Also, as I'm sure you'd be amicable to this, I know somebody on here is going to use the two most recent additions to the SEC as a way of arguing the states those universities reside in belong in the south. First off, someone is going to have to explain how West Virginia culturally fits in with Iowa State or Kansas...as I'm sure you'd agree, they will have a tough time arguing. Second off, Mizzou only joined because of instability in the Big 12 and because the Big Ten, which we'd been trying to get into for years, and which is a better cultural fit, never returned our call and chose Nebraska over us. So the SEC was the next logical choice. ESPN even pokes fun at Mizzou as "the Midwestern executive trying to do business in the east." Regardless, I must confess I'm excited at the prospect of getting to play some of the best football teams this country has to offer.
Last edited by stlouisan; 11-07-2011 at 02:07 AM..
That list is absolutely worthless. I know you don't think they were all documented.
It wasn't really about showing proof of anything; however ,those numbers do account for the documented lynchings that occured in those states. I'm well aware those numbers aren't accurate; just like the census numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ark90
Is the official measurement of a state's "Southerness" the number of lynchings that took place within its borders? Is that something worth arguing about?
My post was in response to those who were talking about hate groups and lynching. Not the OT.
If you want to talk about border states, lets not act like those states are the same statewide. For example:
Missouri isn't a southern state, it's midwestern overall. However, the bootheel is 100% part of the Mid-South.
Virgina is a southern state. However, Northern Virgina near D.C. is very aligned with the Mid-Atlantic.
If you feel like you can group border states completely into one category or another, good luck to you because you have an uphill argument to make. A general grouping is fine, just don't act like there aren't exceptions to the rule. I could make an argument for extreme southern Illinois as part of the south (and a damn good argument I might add). Does that make Illnois a southern state? Hell no it doesn't.
Last edited by GunnerTHB; 11-07-2011 at 08:49 AM..
The University of North Carolina's survey, likely done much more professionally than your's, will show you where the true south lies. Feel free to google it. It's also been mentioned in numerous discussions on here. Less than 25% of people from MD, DE, and MO identified as southern. By contrast, more than 70% of people from Kentucky and Oklahoma identified as southern. These were not small groups of people either...several hundred if I recall per state.
For those who have not seen it, here is the study again...as well as a "press release" giving a summation of it. This survey took place over a time-frame of 7 years, involving 14 individual ones (it was done bi-annually), and questioned some 17,000 respondents.
This is just my opinion, of course, but I honestly think this study, which defines "The South" by where a majority of residents consider themselves to live in the South and personally think of themselves as Southerners, is just about the best way to "define" its boundaries (if such a thing is possible at all).
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WHERE IS THE SOUTH?
The South has been defined by a great many characteristics, but one of the most interesting definitions is where people believe that they are in the South. A related definition is where the residents consider themselves to be southerners, although this is obviously affected by the presence of non-southern migrants.
Until recently we did not have the data to answer the question of where either of those conditions is met. Since 1992, however, 14 twice-yearly Southern Focus Polls conducted by the Institute for Research in Social Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill have asked respondents from the 11 former Confederate states, Kentucky, and Oklahoma "Just for the record, would you say that your community is in the South, or not?" Starting with the third of the series, the same question was asked of smaller samples of respondents from West Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, the District of Columbia, and Missouri (all except Missouri included in the Bureau of the Census's "South"). Respondents from the 13 southern states were also asked "Do you consider yourself a Southerner, or not?," while starting with the second survey those from other states were asked "Do you consider yourself or anyone in your family a Southerner?," and if so, whether they considered themselves to be Southerners.
It is clear from these data that if the point is to isolate southerners for study or to compare them to other Americans the definition of the South employed by the Southern Focus Poll (and, incidentally, by the Gallup Organization) makes sense, while the Bureau of the Census definiton does not. We already knew that, of course, but it's good to be able to document it.
--John Shelton Reed
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Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses)
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