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Old 11-09-2011, 09:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Acela makes a profit actually as does the NE Corrider for Amtrak.
That didn't answer my question about whether it is subsidized by the government or not.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:49 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,157,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
That didn't answer my question about whether it is subsidized by the government or not.

Amtrak as whole is mostly subsidized. The NE Corrider BosWash actually makes a profit and would be a profitable entity if stand alone.

Rail infrastructure is subsized in EXACTLY the same way as highways just with significantly less monies allocated to rail versus highways

Acela is NOT subsidized today though to directly answer your question

It is sold out many times, I find myself having to take suboptimal trains at times when going to NYC from Philly if I book to late; though they do run nearly every 30 minutes at peak travel times
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:51 AM
 
3,458 posts, read 3,111,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Amtrak as whole is mostly subsidized. The NE Corrider BosWash actually makes a profit and would be a profitable entity if stand alone.

Rail infrastructure is subsized in EXACTLY the same way as highways just with significantly less monies allocated to rail versus highways

Acela is NOT subsidized today though to directly answer your question

It is sold out many times, I find myself having to take suboptimal trains at times when going to NYC from Philly if I book to late; though they do run nearly every 30 minutes at peak travel times
If Amtrak is subsidized, and Acela is a line within Amtrak, then the Acela is subsidized whether it is sold out or not.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:56 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,157,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
If Amtrak is subsidized, and Acela is a line within Amtrak, then the Acela is subsidized whether it is sold out or not.

You are missing the point though as Acela is the only example of HSR in the US and makes a profit (without subsidy). Much of the rest of Amtrak outside of the NEC is extremely subsidized, why personally I see HSR working best in selct areas with close proximity of large cities. From an accounting perspective, no Acela is not subsidized
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
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Eventually it will have to be built - Can't keep increasing air traffic and auto traffic. High speed electric rail is a must...Might as well get on it now...as some of you know..I am in Toronto - and they have let the transportion system fall behind - it will take this city 40 years to catch up...NOW intercity travel by rail does exist - BUT to travel for 5 hours is tiresome...Between Montreal and Toronto there should be a high speed rail..I understand that the distance could be covered in 2 hours rather than 5...

All these things that we talk about for the future will not come into being if we worry about cost...the longer we wait - the more it will cost in the eventual long run.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,739 posts, read 3,850,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
If Amtrak is subsidized, and Acela is a line within Amtrak, then the Acela is subsidized whether it is sold out or not.
Thats a weird line of thinking. Thats like saying "If Exxon Mobil is subsidized, then their oil extracting activities are subsidized as well and are not making money."

Amtrak is subsidized for other rail lines, mainly in the West and Midwest, not the Northeast. Here is a good article:
Quote:
This is the kind of story that helps both sides of the high speed rail debate.
Overall, Amtrak is being subsidized to the tune of $32 per passenger according to a new study.
But, that includes big time losers like the line between San Antonio and Los Angeles which is losing $462 per passenger.
Meanwhile, the Acela, a fast train running between Washington D.C., New York and Boston is actually making money.
So, if you're in favor of high speed rail, you can point to the Acela's success. If you think it's a money pit you can point to overall picture.


Read more: Amtrak Loses $32 Per Passenger - Business Insider
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
You are missing the point though as Acela is the only example of HSR in the US and makes a profit (without subsidy).
We just established the Acela is subsidized.

The word "profit" is misleading at best.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:27 AM
 
3,458 posts, read 3,111,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
Thats a weird line of thinking. Thats like saying "If Exxon Mobil is subsidized, then their oil extracting activities are subsidized as well and are not making money."
That would be correct, if Exxon's oil extraction activities were a loss-generating activity without subsidies.

I don't assume that is the case, I think Exxon is just skilled at extracting subsidies even when they are already profitable.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:30 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,157,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
We just established the Acela is subsidized.

The word "profit" is misleading at best.

No Acela makes a "profit" and is NOT misleading at all, it actually operates under a seperate P&L for Amtrak - public record actually you can look it up yourself.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:31 AM
 
3,458 posts, read 3,111,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
No Acela makes a "profit" and is NOT misleading at all, it actually operates under a seperate P&L for Amtrak - public record actually you can look it up yourself.
As long as it is under the Amtrak umbrella, and as long as Amtrak is 100% owned by the US Government, then it is subsidized.

Anyone can generate "profit" in a highly regulated market, all you have to do is legislate it to be so.
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