Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
West Virginia doesn't really belong on this poll, it weighs a little too much to the south. Personal experiences and observations are interesting but they carry little weight, like the fable of the blind men describing an elephant. My personal experiences say that West Virginia is southern, but should anyone give that greater credence than anyone else's observations? No. My relatives came to West Virginia in the early 19th Century from eastern Virginia, they had slaves (not many), and their sons and grandsons joined the Confederate army. I grew up on sweet tea, cornbread (not the sweetened kind), iced tea (the sweetened kind), okra, biscuits and gravy, etc. I must say that we didn't have grits, though for some West Virginians it is a traditional dish. (See Kendra Bailey Morris's unfortunately titled West Virginia cookbook 'White Trash Gatherings').
West Virginia is totally unique, a one-of-a-kind state. It was created against the will of the people living there as a political deal during the Civil War. The Union government in Wheeling was a puppet government with only minority support in western Virginia.
You can see from this map the counties that voted to secede from the United States in 1861 along with the rest of Virginia. This was a public vote and not a delegate vote. They became part of the state very much against their will. So how does that make Pendleton County part of a "northern" state while right next to it Highland County, VA, is in a "southern" state? Does the act of drawing an arbitrary line through a state change the character of the people living on either side? I don't think that any part of the south that voted for secession from the United States in 1860-61 should ever be called northern.
I will again post this triple map (which is public domain from the US Census, Wikipedia, and me). The first map is the US Census 2000 map of ancestry, which many a City Data person has seen. The second map is the extent of native southern speech as determined by the Univ. of PA Linguistics Dept., which is a large-scale study and is generally viewed as definitive. The third map is major religious identity by county, red is Baptist (both Southern and American), green is Methodist, and light blue is Catholic. I think the combination of these maps are pretty indicative of what I've said.
I'm still sticking with my story... Everything north of Sutton/Weston/Parkersburg/Elkins/Moorefield is more Northern in influence than Southern. They are not major cities... they are rural small country towns.. But for some reason I have a hard time conveying to people the difference between country/rural and Southern. While they can coexist in a location they are not synonymous.
Perhaps you feel the southern influence because you're family came from Virginia originally. A portion of my family came from the Charlottsville area, but the majority of my family came to West Virginia from Altoona and Philadelphia PA. I would also like to add that I would have probably lumped West Virginia as Southern until I actually visited the South and realized that the differences are like night and day... as I mentioned earlier in my other post.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,548,539 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaHerdOn
I'm still sticking with my story... Everything north of Sutton/Weston/Parkersburg/Elkins/Moorefield is more Northern in influence than Southern. They are not major cities... they are rural small country towns.. But for some reason I have a hard time conveying to people the difference between country/rural and Southern. While they can coexist in a location they are not synonymous.
Perhaps you feel the southern influence because you're family came from Virginia originally. A portion of my family came from the Charlottsville area, but the majority of my family came to West Virginia from Altoona and Philadelphia PA. I would also like to add that I would have probably lumped West Virginia as Southern until I actually visited the South and realized that the differences are like night and day... as I mentioned earlier in my other post.
I can't give you any rep yet so I'll tell you here that I am in agreement with you.
Kansas is similar to Missouri in that it borders a Southern state. The bottom 1/3 of Missouri (Joplin, Branson, Poplar Bluff, etc.) is Southern Light. Likewise there are Southern influences in the bottom 1/3 of Kansas (Pittsburg, etc.). I currently live in Nebraska, but have lived throughout the South and Mid-West. The upper 2/3 of Kansas resembles a Nebraskan accent and culture. The bottom 1/3 has an ounce of Southern in their accent and culture. I wouldn't call the bottom 1/3 of Kansas Southern Light like Southern Missouri, but there are some Southern influences. Common sense says the bottom portion of border states would have some Southern influences because the South wouldn't abruptly end at the state line.
How in the world does Minnesota only have 77%? Something is wrong here. Minnesota is not just northern, its THE northern state. Its the heart of the north. Hockey, lots of cold snowy weather in winter, nasally accents, dairy farms, factories and mills, lots of pine trees, lot of large lakes, moose, you can see the northern lights sometimes. I mean, come on!
How in the world does Minnesota only have 77%? Something is wrong here. Minnesota is not just northern, its THE northern state. Its the heart of the north. Hockey, lots of cold snowy weather in winter, nasally accents, dairy farms, factories and mills, lots of pine trees, lot of large lakes, moose, you can see the northern lights sometimes. I mean, come on!
Probably because not everyone thinks of the Midwest as part of the North. IMO the North is all the states in the poll (except for West Virginia) as either part of the Northeast or the Midwest.
But regardless of opinion, you can see some people were confused. For instance as of today, Wisconsin has one or two votes less than Minnesota and Michigan even though Wisconsin is between Minnesota and Michigan!
But wait it gets better! New Hampshire has one less vote then Vermont and Maine, even though New Hampshire is between those two states! New Hampshire in fact is even slightly further north of Vermont.
I like this one, Massachusetts has one less vote then Rhode Island (even though Massachusetts is further north!) and two less votes then New Hampshire, Connecticut and New York even though they are in the same general area.
142- Maine
141 - New Hampshire
142 - Vermont
139 - Massachusetts
140 - Rhode Island and Providence Plantations (love the long name lol)
141 - Connecticut
141 - New York
133 - Pennsylvania
134 - New Jersey
81 - Maryland
85 - Delaware
Northeast total votes 1419 - average of 11 states is 129. Blue is above average, red is below average
Midwest total votes 1085. Average of 12 states is 90.42 Blue is above average, red is below.
Not sure what the confusion about Indiana is because she is between Ohio and Illinois. Also LOL, do 6 people really think that North Dakota and South Dakota are in different regions!
Probably because not everyone thinks of the Midwest as part of the North. IMO the North is all the states in the poll (except for West Virginia) as either part of the Northeast or the Midwest.
But regardless of opinion, you can see some people were confused. For instance as of today, Wisconsin has one or two votes less than Minnesota and Michigan even though Wisconsin is between Minnesota and Michigan!
But wait it gets better! New Hampshire has one less vote then Vermont and Maine, even though New Hampshire is between those two states! New Hampshire in fact is even slightly further north of Vermont.
I like this one, Massachusetts has one less vote then Rhode Island (even though Massachusetts is further north!) and two less votes then New Hampshire, Connecticut and New York even though they are in the same general area.
Then people are dumb then. Yet again, this country does have a strong eastern bias. People think the Northeast is the only "North." Then why bother putting "east" at the end? SMH.
I was just in Minnesota, you probably see the word "North" or "Northern" more than "Midwestern" in relation to businesses or tourism or national identity. People identify as being "From up north" and "The North Country" a lot. The northern half of the state looks more like Maine than it does like Iowa. I also consider the Northwestern states part of the North. Oregon is not all that different from Minnesota or Maine. Lot of pine trees, a logging culture, flannel is very popular, its quite chilly for much of the year (though much milder winters) But, eastern bias, you know. I think its silly to group Oregon and Washington in the same region as New Mexico. Washington borders Canada, New Mexico and Arizona border Mexico. The west is far too large to be lumped as one region just like the Midwest or Southeast.
Honestly we should split the west in Southwest and Northwest. Southern California and southern Nevada are Southwest, anything north of that is Northwest.
Location: L'Enfant D.C. near the southern end of the megalopolis
39 posts, read 41,952 times
Reputation: 53
Non-western
Generally was seen as a northern state by 1960 - Jim Crow and Slavery were not the modes of racism
Linguistic studies can agree these areas are in the Northern or Midland regions
Usually the average annual temperature is under 55 degress - exceptions being in Appalachia and small areas outside of it in the higher elevations of states like Md. or Ky., and the warmer parts of Kansas
Questionably northern states are questionable for a reason (KY, VA, WV, MD, MO, DE) and are not truly northern, though DE is closest.
Another map by me - the yellow band is where the north stops.
Last edited by Carmelo Sanantonio; 05-06-2017 at 09:30 PM..
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,548,539 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmelo Sanantonio
Non-western
Generally was seen as a northern state by 1960 - Jim Crow and Slavery were not the modes of racism
Linguistic studies can agree these areas are in the Northern or Midland regions
Usually the average annual temperature is under 55 degress - exceptions being in Appalachia and small areas outside of it in the higher elevations of states like Md. or Ky., and the warmer parts of Kansas
Questionably northern states are questionable for a reason (KY, VA, WV, MD, MO, DE) and are not truly northern, though DE is closest.
Another map by me - the yellow band is where the north stops.
I agree with your map for the most part. Except that I do not consider Maryland, Delaware or a little more of northern WV southern.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
