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Everyone focuses on slavery as if its the only issue of the war. Slavery triggered the war, but the real cause was conflicting views of federal vs state power. Northeasterners always have tended toward a very strong federal goverment, while the south was the opposite. The war was more about who held more power, the feds or the state. I believe the southern point of view is far more constitutional, and in line with the founding fathers. The right of states to govern themselves is enshrined in the bill of rights(10th amend). This was done for a reason, states are semi soverign entities just as the south believed. The federal goverment has no right to lord over the states, tell them what laws they have to have, how they are to conduct thier business. The southern states were perfectly within their right to leave the union, this was completly constitutional for a state to withdrawl from a voluntary union. Bottom line is the south was right, the north wrong about the power of the state vs the feds. Just because the north won does not make them right. Im not defending slavery, as that is undefendable but it was up to the slave holding states to outlaw the "peculuar institution" within their own boundries. Im a firm believer that our big bloated, socialist and now bordering on tyranical federal goverment traces its roots back to appomatix. Without appomatix we would not have the type of goverment we have today. For this reason I fly the 3rd national confederate flag from my house. This may seem strange since I do not live in the south, but in the midwestern state of Michigan. I do this because I believe in small goverment, local control and conservative values. Anyone who supports the tea partys, supports small goverment and wants federal tyranny stopped should fly a confederate flag. To me the confederacy represents God fearing Americans standing up to unjust federal power. No one wants to be ruled from 1000 miles away, and those who stood against it in 1861 are Americans to respect. I dont think anyone would honestly believe that hundreds of thousands of confederate patriots fought to protect a few rich slaveholders. They fought for the freedom of thier soverign states against federal tyranny. Let the flag fly, happy confederate history month.
A study of the tariff issue shows it going up and down in the period before the rebellion. Economic policy and who gets what part of the pie are purposes of politics and in a representative government not getting your own way is not an excuse for rebellion.
No but excessive taxation with meaningless representation is a damn good excuse for all out war.
Not to mention that the southern elites could've shown as much enterprise as northern elites and gotten involved in modern industry and commercial life. They made poor, short sighted choices.
Too bad the Northern elites were not skilled enough in enterprise to produce goods that could compete with Europe to satisfy the South's demand. The South made one poor choice IMO. They should have paid the slaves 25 cents a week, after all there were no Federal minimum wage laws in 1860, the North knew this; they were quite familiar with it utilizing child labor.
Yes, I read when you wrote that before and reading it again is still not convincing me. Why don't you write it about 5 more times and see if that works.
No, the most simplistic view is not always the best sorry to say and when you fail to look at things like high tariffs on products produced primarily in southern states, murders of southerners by abolitionists and the removal of rights from supposedly free and independent states then you are not looking at the whole picture. Yes, slavery was a large factor but far from the only factor.
And I thought only we northerners were crass and rude?
Thanks for proving my point. No, slavery was not the only factor but it was the primary one. Not even comparable to the United States as a whole.
Everyone focuses on slavery as if its the only issue of the war. Slavery triggered the war, but the real cause was conflicting views of federal vs state power. Northeasterners always have tended toward a very strong federal goverment, while the south was the opposite. The war was more about who held more power, the feds or the state. I believe the southern point of view is far more constitutional, and in line with the founding fathers. The right of states to govern themselves is enshrined in the bill of rights(10th amend). This was done for a reason, states are semi soverign entities just as the south believed. The federal goverment has no right to lord over the states, tell them what laws they have to have, how they are to conduct thier business. The southern states were perfectly within their right to leave the union, this was completly constitutional for a state to withdrawl from a voluntary union. Bottom line is the south was right, the north wrong about the power of the state vs the feds. Just because the north won does not make them right. Im not defending slavery, as that is undefendable but it was up to the slave holding states to outlaw the "peculuar institution" within their own boundries. Im a firm believer that our big bloated, socialist and now bordering on tyranical federal goverment traces its roots back to appomatix. Without appomatix we would not have the type of goverment we have today. For this reason I fly the 3rd national confederate flag from my house. This may seem strange since I do not live in the south, but in the midwestern state of Michigan. I do this because I believe in small goverment, local control and conservative values. Anyone who supports the tea partys, supports small goverment and wants federal tyranny stopped should fly a confederate flag. To me the confederacy represents God fearing Americans standing up to unjust federal power. No one wants to be ruled from 1000 miles away, and those who stood against it in 1861 are Americans to respect. I dont think anyone would honestly believe that hundreds of thousands of confederate patriots fought to protect a few rich slaveholders. They fought for the freedom of thier soverign states against federal tyranny. Let the flag fly, happy confederate history month.
Danielj, you took the words right out of my mouth, mind, and soul
Best post I've seen on here in a while as this about sums it up, folks.
The Northeast is a diseased lapdog of a wildly out of control federal government which should be opposed at every turn. People will try to turn this into a PC race issue and once again deny the South its natural right to fight for its cultural and political independence. It is typical of the average arrogant Northeasterner and the big government mentality which prevails in Boston, NYC, and D.C. This is why I also fly my flag, and to show affinity with my Southern friends in unity against the unconstitutional influences which have crept into this country since the War of Northern Aggression concluded with the cultural genocide of Southern men, women, and children seeking freedom from unchecked and ruthless tyranny.
People will try to turn this into a PC race issue and once again deny the South its natural right to fight for its cultural and political independence.
And for slavery.
Some things ARE politically correct. Slavery isn't one of them nor is apologizing for it's defense. Nor is rebelling because you don't like the result of elections.
Too bad the Northern elites were not skilled enough in enterprise to produce goods that could compete with Europe to satisfy the South's demand.
They were soon enough able to.
You seem to forget that the south wasn't the only part of the nation that needed manufactured goods.
You said
"excessive taxation with meaningless representation is a damn good excuse for all out war"
What excessive taxes?
What meaningless representation? Are you saying that your representation is meaningful ONLY when you win political battles? Have you a contempt for the democratic process? Is rebellion justified when you lose political battles?
Are you a communist? Fascist? Monarchist? I ask because you sure as Hell don't talk like you hold with democracy.
Some things ARE politically correct. Slavery isn't one of them nor is apologizing for it's defense. Nor is rebelling because you don't like the result of elections.
No one is apologizing for its defense. Anyone with any basic knowledge of history realizes that all nations have allowed or furthered injustices for economic and/or geopolitical gain.
The day that flying the American flag becomes an issue because of the far greater violence that has been committed under it, perhaps I'll reconsider my position. Otherwise, no matter how you try to swing it, it's nothing but hypocrisy.
And I thought only we northerners were crass and rude?
Thanks for proving my point. No, slavery was not the only factor but it was the primary one. Not even comparable to the United States as a whole.
Your response post to me was sarcastic and I responded in kind. Since I am from The Bronx it could still be that "only us northerners are crass and rude".
Yes it was one of the factors to go along with the tariffs and a few other reasons. I never said it wasn't, that does not male the flag a symbol of racism though which is what this thread is about.
You seem to forget that the south wasn't the only part of the nation that needed manufactured goods.
You said
"excessive taxation with meaningless representation is a damn good excuse for all out war"
What excessive taxes?
What meaningless representation? Are you saying that your representation is meaningful ONLY when you win political battles? Have you a contempt for the democratic process? Is rebellion justified when you lose political battles?
Are you a communist? Fascist? Monarchist? I ask because you sure as Hell don't talk like you hold with democracy.
Well if your such a diehard supporter of democracy, why then did the U.S. consider slaves to be 3/5's of a person. The South wanted slaves to be counted so they could have more representation, the North was against this.
I'll concede "taxes" was a poor choice of wording; protective tarrifs were the real culprit. Raising tariffs tends to backlash causing the other country to raise their tariffs as well.
I don't condone slavery, but I also dislike the vilifying of the South. I believe both sides were stupid in those days and it was an epic fail of diplomacy. Certainley the South could have paid the slaves a pittance as there were no federal minimum wage laws and wallah, it's not slavery anymore. Then there would have been the issue of slaves leaving plantations. What would 4 million newly freed people have done then? Go out and starve and not be able to find work as it was not easy for slaves to feed themselves after they were set free after the war.
As for the North they could have given incentives to non-slave farms and made it more attractive to not use slavery at all. Hell, our government subsidizes farms today so why not then? The North chose not to do this, after all what better way to jumpstart your industrial production than by manufacturing war materials and providing a paycheck to soldiers thus washing your dirty hands that benifitted and profitted from slavery decades prior.
Danielj, you took the words right out of my mouth, mind, and soul
Best post I've seen on here in a while as this about sums it up, folks.
The Northeast is a diseased lapdog of a wildly out of control federal government which should be opposed at every turn. People will try to turn this into a PC race issue and once again deny the South its natural right to fight for its cultural and political independence. It is typical of the average arrogant Northeasterner and the big government mentality which prevails in Boston, NYC, and D.C. This is why I also fly my flag, and to show affinity with my Southern friends in unity against the unconstitutional influences which have crept into this country since the War of Northern Aggression concluded with the cultural genocide of Southern men, women, and children seeking freedom from unchecked and ruthless tyranny.
Reluctant, sorry to say but IMO the worst post I seen this year.
But the sentence is right about one thing. There WAS a cultural genocide with a unchecked and ruthless tyranny. It was a cultural genocide against the African slaves and their grandchildren's grandchildren have still not fully recovered from this racist war of cultural genocide to this very day.
They were finally freed by the "War of Northern Aggression".
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War of Northern Aggression
