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And "Caucasian" did not have the same meaning as "White" or "White American" has today.
Caucasian refers to a race, one of several on the planet. Always has been, always will be.
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Originally Posted by Katiana
She's talking about great-grandparents. I'd hazard a guess these people were born before 1900. And I've never heard of Poles, a lot of whom have blonde hair and blue eyes, referred to as non-white.
LOL, my grandparents were all born before 1900.
Not to mention that my Italian family originated from near Lake Como. Most of us have red hair, fair skin, and freckles. The Sicilian kids in my mom's neighborhood used to tease my aunts, calling them "Germans".
That'll really mess up the idiotic premise of this thread.
Caucasian refers to a race, one of several on the planet. Always has been, always will be.
"Caucasian" is a social construct just like "White" or "Black" is. It's not scientific fact (unless you consider craniology "science"). Its meaning has also evolved over time. And the term "Caucasian" is rooted in a lot of racist, colonial history. It's outdated.
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The Civil Rights Movement dismantled the most explicit forms of racism, including many biological-sounding race labels. Terms like "Negroid, "the Red Man," and "the Yellow Race" were replaced--often by group members themselves--with words like "Black" or "African American," "Native American," and "Asian," which indicate that these groups are political, not biological realities. Today, terms like "Oriental" would seriously mark the user as out of touch with current understandings. Yet there is one striking exception in our modern racial vocabulary: the term "Caucasian." Despite being a remnant of a discredited theory of racial classification, the term has persisted into the twenty-first century, as well as outside of the educational community.
Not to mention that my Italian family originated from near Lake Como. Most of us have red hair, fair skin, and freckles. The Sicilian kids in my mom's neighborhood used to tease my aunts, calling them "Germans".
What does this have to with the historical fact that Italians were not considered "white" in the United States? If there are a multitude of books and journal entries on how the Italians became White, then that means there must have been a time when they weren't considered such.
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Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
That'll really mess up the idiotic premise of this thread.
"White ethnic," which is a term used by political scientists, historians and sociologists at virtually every university in the U.S. worth its weight in salt, is "idiotic"? The OP didn't invent the term.
If you put in the man (or woman) hours, get caught up on the scholarship, review all of the primary sources, and then get some articles submitted for peer review, then sure, by all means revisit it.
I could find an Italian grocery store back home. Obviously, you wouldn't be likely to find a German one because the population was smaller, but I suspect in most heavily German neighborhoods it'd be harder.
You would be wrong. There's a good amount of German groceries, restaurants, cultural associations, and bars in my neck of the woods.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
What does this have to with the historical fact that Italians were not considered "white" in the United States? If there are a multitude of books and journal entries on how the Italians became White, then that means there must have been a time when they weren't considered such.
This sounds like a bunch of mental masturbation among social scientist with too much time on their hands. If a person's ancestors were from Europe (or at least the vast majority of them) then they're considered white by others. It's doesn't have to be that complicated. Italians and Irish not being accepted by the American establishment was more about a cultural clash and it probably occurred more in dense urban areas where people were living on top of each other. Mankind has always found a way to start feuds over stupid differences, and the smaller the differences the more people will try to make up minor things to get upset about.
Don't have a number for Jews, but here are Irish and Italians for city propers of NYC, Philadelphia and Boston in 1980.
NYC
Italian 1,005,304 14.2%
Irish 647,733 9.2%
Philadelphia
Irish 304,523 18%
Italian 192,102 11.4%
Boston
Irish 150,971 26.8%
Italian 68,962 12.2%
Where did you find those percentages ?
I'm also trying to find percentages of ancestry from 1980 US Census but I couldn't find any.
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"Caucasian" is a social construct just like "White" or "Black" is. It's not scientific fact (unless you consider craniology "science"). Its meaning has also evolved over time. And the term "Caucasian" is rooted in a lot of racist, colonial history. It's outdated.
