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Cities in Texas, most notably Dallas, Houston, Austin and San Antonio, have profoundly stronger, more diversified job markets for white-collar and blue-collar professionals alike.
Additionally, Texas cities have more and better higher educational offerings, richer histories and cultures, better cultural amenities, greater racial and social diversity, more varied cuisine options and, in some neighborhoods, better walkability.
If you're looking for an urban experience/lifestyle, you'd probably be better off in Texas than in Arizona. Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona's two largest cities, along with nearby Las Vegas, NV are truly some of the most suburban major cities in not only the United States, but the entire world.
However, if you're indifferent to traditionally urban attributes, amenities and an overall lifestyle, and you remove employment-related factors from the equation, I think I'd still give the slight edge to Texas.
Your children will have access to higher caliber public K-12 schools and a much larger, more reputable state university system. Arizona has about four traditional universities - three public (ASU, NAU, UA), one private (Grand Canyon). The public universities are diploma mills and glorified community colleges, especially ASU and NAU, and last I checked, Grand Canyon University is not accredited.
Yes, your property taxes in Texas will be higher than in Arizona, but I think the better schools are totally worth it. Good thing is, there's no state income tax in Texas, so the higher property taxes are often offset by that, at least relative to Arizona. And if you're a high-income-earner, say no more.
Also, you and your family are more likely to end up in a stronger, more well-established, more supportive community in Texas, where locals tend to have more civic pride and are more likely to be involved in their respective communities, than in Arizona, which is mostly filled with transients. This leads me to my next point.
I appreciate the fact that most people who live in Texas were born in Texas, and a good majority of the transplants there seem to be well-adjusted and integrated into the community with no real desire to leave/move elsewhere. That certainly wasn't the case in Arizona.
Most people who live in Arizona were not born in Arizona, and many of the people living there seemed to have quite a transient mentality/outlook. Every person you meet in Arizona seems to move on within 6 months to a year. I would estimate that most people who live in Phoenix or Tucson live there for an average of 3-5 years before moving back to where they came from or to someplace new altogether.
Some cite the heat as their impetus for leaving, others cite the pests and/or bad drivers, and yet others cite the lack of urbanity or well-paying jobs. Personally, I didn't like the extremely liberal gun laws and seemingly "trigger-happy" people/culture, or the fact that winter is fairly cold and offers little consolation for the long, hellishly hot summers. But deep down, I think the real reason is that most people move away from Arizona is that, even after years of living there, most people have few, if any, real friends because of the general transience of the place.
Humans are highly sociable beings and require a healthy dose of social and emotional support. Coupled with the isolation factor (i.e., house to garaged car with dark-tinted windows to office building, wash, rinse, repeat), I think the transient nature of the state makes the state a poor place to live, at least for most people.
There's one poster on the Arizona forum - goolsbyjazz, I think - that moved to the Phoenix area in 1999 and claims that, as of a couple of years ago, every friend he made when he first moved to the area has since moved on. He's also considering leaving as well. Unfortunately, that's just the culture of Arizona and, to my understanding, it's always been like that.
The good thing about Texas is that, in most areas, if you move away and return 5-10 years from now, most of the people who were living there when you first lived there, will still be living there. I think that's vital for developing meaningful, emotionally dependable relationships, although YMMV.
Finally, coming from Illinois by way of Arkansas, Texas would probably seem quite a bit more familiar than Arizona, and that may make the initial transition for you and your family a little bit easier. However, if you're looking for a complete change, then I suggest moving to Arizona instead.
That's just my $0.02. Best of luck in your decision and eventual relocation, and Happy Holidays.
Last edited by Bert_from_back_East; 12-17-2015 at 03:03 PM..
Cities in Texas, most notably Dallas, Houston, Austin and San Antonio, have profoundly stronger, more diversified job markets for white-collar and blue-collar professionals alike.
Additionally, Texas cities have more and better higher educational offerings, richer histories and cultures, better cultural amenities, greater racial and social diversity, more varied cuisine options and, in some neighborhoods, better walkability.
If you're looking for an urban experience/lifestyle, you'd probably be better off in Texas than in Arizona. Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona's two largest cities, along with nearby Las Vegas, NV are truly some of the most suburban major cities in not only the United States, but the entire world.
However, if you're indifferent to traditionally urban attributes, amenities and an overall lifestyle, and you remove employment-related factors from the equation, I think I'd still give the slight edge to Texas.
Your children will have access to higher caliber public K-12 schools and a much larger, more reputable state university system. Arizona has about four traditional universities - three public (ASU, NAU, UA), one private (Grand Canyon). The public universities are diploma mills and glorified community colleges, especially ASU and NAU, and last I checked, Grand Canyon University is not accredited.
Yes, your property taxes in Texas will be higher than in Arizona, but I think the better schools are totally worth it. Good thing is, there's no state income tax in Texas, so the higher property taxes are often offset by that, at least relative to Arizona. And if you're a high-income-earner, say no more.
Also, you and your family are more likely to end up in a stronger, more well-established, more supportive community in Texas, where locals tend to have more civic pride and are more likely to be involved in their respective communities, than in Arizona, which is mostly filled with transients. This leads me to my next point.
I appreciate the fact that most people who live in Texas were born in Texas, and a good majority of the transplants there seem to be well-adjusted and integrated into the community with no real desire to leave/move elsewhere. That certainly wasn't the case in Arizona.
Most people who live in Arizona were not born in Arizona, and many of the people living there seemed to have quite a transient mentality/outlook. Every person you meet in Arizona seems to move on within 6 months to a year. I would estimate that most people who live in Phoenix or Tucson live there for an average of 3-5 years before moving back to where they came from or to someplace new altogether.
Some cite the heat as their impetus for leaving, others cite the pests and/or bad drivers, and yet others cite the lack of urbanity or well-paying jobs. Personally, I didn't like the extremely liberal gun laws and seemingly "trigger-happy" people/culture, or the fact that winter is fairly cold and offers little consolation for the long, hellishly hot summers. But deep down, I think the real reason is that most people move away from Arizona is that, even after years of living there, most people have few, if any, real friends because of the general transience of the place.
Humans are highly sociable beings and require a healthy dose of social and emotional support. Coupled with the isolation factor (i.e., house to garaged car with dark-tinted windows to office building, wash, rinse, repeat), I think the transient nature of the state makes the state a poor place to live, at least for most people.
There's one poster on the Arizona forum - goolsbyjazz, I think - that moved to the Phoenix area in 1999 and claims that, as of a couple of years ago, every friend he made when he first moved to the area has since moved on. He's also considering leaving as well. Unfortunately, that's just the culture of Arizona and, to my understanding, it's always been like that.
The good thing about Texas is that, in most areas, if you move away and return 5-10 years from now, most of the people who were living there when you first lived there, will still be living there. I think that's vital for developing meaningful, emotionally dependable relationships, although YMMV.
Finally, coming from Illinois by way of Arkansas, Texas would probably seem quite a bit more familiar than Arizona, and that may make the initial transition for you and your family a little bit easier. However, if you're looking for a complete change, then I suggest moving to Arizona instead.
That's just my $0.02. Best of luck in your decision and eventual relocation, and Happy Holidays.
Can you clean up some of your incorrect information that presented as "factual"?
Cities in Texas, most notably Dallas, Houston, Austin and San Antonio, have profoundly stronger, more diversified job markets for white-collar and blue-collar professionals alike.
Additionally, Texas cities have more and better higher educational offerings, richer histories and cultures, better cultural amenities, greater racial and social diversity, more varied cuisine options and, in some neighborhoods, better walkability.
If you're looking for an urban experience/lifestyle, you'd probably be better off in Texas than in Arizona. Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona's two largest cities, along with nearby Las Vegas, NV are truly some of the most suburban major cities in not only the United States, but the entire world.
However, if you're indifferent to traditionally urban attributes, amenities and an overall lifestyle, and you remove employment-related factors from the equation, I think I'd still give the slight edge to Texas.
Your children will have access to higher caliber public K-12 schools and a much larger, more reputable state university system. Arizona has about four traditional universities - three public (ASU, NAU, UA), one private (Grand Canyon). The public universities are diploma mills and glorified community colleges, especially ASU and NAU, and last I checked, Grand Canyon University is not accredited.
Yes, your property taxes in Texas will be higher than in Arizona, but I think the better schools are totally worth it. Good thing is, there's no state income tax in Texas, so the higher property taxes are often offset by that, at least relative to Arizona. And if you're a high-income-earner, say no more.
Also, you and your family are more likely to end up in a stronger, more well-established, more supportive community in Texas, where locals tend to have more civic pride and are more likely to be involved in their respective communities, than in Arizona, which is mostly filled with transients. This leads me to my next point.
I appreciate the fact that most people who live in Texas were born in Texas, and a good majority of the transplants there seem to be well-adjusted and integrated into the community with no real desire to leave/move elsewhere. That certainly wasn't the case in Arizona.
Most people who live in Arizona were not born in Arizona, and many of the people living there seemed to have quite a transient mentality/outlook. Every person you meet in Arizona seems to move on within 6 months to a year. I would estimate that most people who live in Phoenix or Tucson live there for an average of 3-5 years before moving back to where they came from or to someplace new altogether.
Some cite the heat as their impetus for leaving, others cite the pests and/or bad drivers, and yet others cite the lack of urbanity or well-paying jobs. Personally, I didn't like the extremely liberal gun laws and seemingly "trigger-happy" people/culture, or the fact that winter is fairly cold and offers little consolation for the long, hellishly hot summers. But deep down, I think the real reason is that most people move away from Arizona is that, even after years of living there, most people have few, if any, real friends because of the general transience of the place.
Humans are highly sociable beings and require a healthy dose of social and emotional support. Coupled with the isolation factor (i.e., house to garaged car with dark-tinted windows to office building, wash, rinse, repeat), I think the transient nature of the state makes the state a poor place to live, at least for most people.
There's one poster on the Arizona forum - goolsbyjazz, I think - that moved to the Phoenix area in 1999 and claims that, as of a couple of years ago, every friend he made when he first moved to the area has since moved on. He's also considering leaving as well. Unfortunately, that's just the culture of Arizona and, to my understanding, it's always been like that.
The good thing about Texas is that, in most areas, if you move away and return 5-10 years from now, most of the people who were living there when you first lived there, will still be living there. I think that's vital for developing meaningful, emotionally dependable relationships, although YMMV.
Finally, coming from Illinois by way of Arkansas, Texas would probably seem quite a bit more familiar than Arizona, and that may make the initial transition for you and your family a little bit easier. However, if you're looking for a complete change, then I suggest moving to Arizona instead.
That's just my $0.02. Best of luck in your decision and eventual relocation, and Happy Holidays.
......What are you even talking about?
Sounds like you've never lived over a year in AZ and are just going off google.
That might have been the case in the 80s or early 90s but I can assure you that there are many people who stay in arizona for all of their life. When I was in high school I would say that around 90 percent of people I knew were all born in AZ and many of them stayed after HS and college. Furthermore, off the people who I know that are not from AZ and are from the midwest originally, have all adjusted to life in Phoenix area. I can't speak for Tucson seeing as I don't know their way of life down there but for the PHX area I can assure you that many "outsiders" have been integrated into the community and are proud to call AZ their new home.
Arizona net domestic migration per year is +41,975
Chances are we have more AZ plates here than TX plates in AZ.
Since CA keeps getting mentioned the net domestic migration is -32,090.
How'd you come to that conclusion? Do you know the number of people are moving from AZ to TX or vice versa?
I can say from experience that living in Arlington, I did not see many AZ plates. I feel that I see more TX plates in AZ now, but not nearly as much as WA, OR, CO, CA, or Midwest plates.
Cities in Texas, most notably Dallas, Houston, Austin and San Antonio, have profoundly stronger, more diversified job markets for white-collar and blue-collar professionals alike.
Additionally, Texas cities have more and better higher educational offerings, richer histories and cultures, better cultural amenities, greater racial and social diversity, more varied cuisine options and, in some neighborhoods, better walkability.
If you're looking for an urban experience/lifestyle, you'd probably be better off in Texas than in Arizona. Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona's two largest cities, along with nearby Las Vegas, NV are truly some of the most suburban major cities in not only the United States, but the entire world.
However, if you're indifferent to traditionally urban attributes, amenities and an overall lifestyle, and you remove employment-related factors from the equation, I think I'd still give the slight edge to Texas.
Your children will have access to higher caliber public K-12 schools and a much larger, more reputable state university system. Arizona has about four traditional universities - three public (ASU, NAU, UA), one private (Grand Canyon). The public universities are diploma mills and glorified community colleges, especially ASU and NAU, and last I checked, Grand Canyon University is not accredited.
Yes, your property taxes in Texas will be higher than in Arizona, but I think the better schools are totally worth it. Good thing is, there's no state income tax in Texas, so the higher property taxes are often offset by that, at least relative to Arizona. And if you're a high-income-earner, say no more.
Also, you and your family are more likely to end up in a stronger, more well-established, more supportive community in Texas, where locals tend to have more civic pride and are more likely to be involved in their respective communities, than in Arizona, which is mostly filled with transients. This leads me to my next point.
I appreciate the fact that most people who live in Texas were born in Texas, and a good majority of the transplants there seem to be well-adjusted and integrated into the community with no real desire to leave/move elsewhere. That certainly wasn't the case in Arizona.
Most people who live in Arizona were not born in Arizona, and many of the people living there seemed to have quite a transient mentality/outlook. Every person you meet in Arizona seems to move on within 6 months to a year. I would estimate that most people who live in Phoenix or Tucson live there for an average of 3-5 years before moving back to where they came from or to someplace new altogether.
Some cite the heat as their impetus for leaving, others cite the pests and/or bad drivers, and yet others cite the lack of urbanity or well-paying jobs. Personally, I didn't like the extremely liberal gun laws and seemingly "trigger-happy" people/culture, or the fact that winter is fairly cold and offers little consolation for the long, hellishly hot summers. But deep down, I think the real reason is that most people move away from Arizona is that, even after years of living there, most people have few, if any, real friends because of the general transience of the place.
Humans are highly sociable beings and require a healthy dose of social and emotional support. Coupled with the isolation factor (i.e., house to garaged car with dark-tinted windows to office building, wash, rinse, repeat), I think the transient nature of the state makes the state a poor place to live, at least for most people.
There's one poster on the Arizona forum - goolsbyjazz, I think - that moved to the Phoenix area in 1999 and claims that, as of a couple of years ago, every friend he made when he first moved to the area has since moved on. He's also considering leaving as well. Unfortunately, that's just the culture of Arizona and, to my understanding, it's always been like that.
The good thing about Texas is that, in most areas, if you move away and return 5-10 years from now, most of the people who were living there when you first lived there, will still be living there. I think that's vital for developing meaningful, emotionally dependable relationships, although YMMV.
Finally, coming from Illinois by way of Arkansas, Texas would probably seem quite a bit more familiar than Arizona, and that may make the initial transition for you and your family a little bit easier. However, if you're looking for a complete change, then I suggest moving to Arizona instead.
That's just my $0.02. Best of luck in your decision and eventual relocation, and Happy Holidays.
First of all, I live in Arizona, but I also advised OP to look at TX, earlier in this thread, because I think that Texas is a better fit. So, no disagreements there. I think you pointed out a lot of good reasons why.
However, I'm a newcomer to Phoenix, so I guess I fit that transient dynamic you're talking about, but 1) I don't see Phoenix as a transient city compared to some other places I've lived, and 2) I tend to avoid like the plague cities where everybody has lived in one place their whole lives.
For whatever reason, I've done a lot of travelling in my life. It began before I had a choice in the matter, with my family. Thoreau (I think--was it him?) said that you could write a book about the advantages of staying at home one day, but you could write a book the next day about the advantages of travelling. From my perspective, I really hate living in or even visiting cities where everybody has been there since the day they were born and gives any newcomer the hairy eyeball. I mean, in a cosmopolitan city, nobody bats an eyelash at people that are different or from somewhere else. I'm very conscious of the difference between the two types of places, believe me.
In the one region that I lived longest in my life (I won't say where, because what I'm about to say is probably true of a lot of other places), the locals had a funny way of describing their peers who were born in town, had lived their whole lives there, and would likely never leave: "Lifers."
I appreciate the long term investment that people make in places they love, and I'm not criticizing that at all. But as an outsider looking in, I do not at all yearn to live in a place where everybody else has been there forever. Just a matter of personal choice, I guess. I think that tolerance comes from exposure to other people, places, and things.
I'd pick Texas. More variety, and more of a culture. Arizona is too transplanty. I'm a transplant to Texas myself, but that doesn't mean I want to be completely sorrounded by non-natives. I like being immersed in a local culture. Texas is a whole cultural experience which I enjoy. The food is killer, the music is full of character and so is the history.
Arizona sure seems nice to visit, all the pretty scenery, but also seems kind of sprawly and.. no offence, stale. It's like Florida without the beach and with even less of a pronounced native culture.
Phoenix (not Arizona) is sprawly but Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin aren't?!!
As usual, I think we have a case of too many people making assumptions about AZ after visiting the Grand Canyon or having a layover at Sky Harbor. Or worst of all, reading posters' opinions on C-D.
Phoenix (not Arizona) is sprawly but Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin aren't?!!
As usual, I think we have a case of too many people making assumptions about AZ after visiting the Grand Canyon or having a layover at Sky Harbor. Or worst of all, reading posters' opinions on C-D.
No doubt. All of the major urban areas in TX with the exception of El Paso sprawl more than Phoenix and all sprawl more than Vegas. In addition, Grand Canyon University has been a regionally accredited university since 1968. Apparently, bert-from-back-east never actually "checked" that, but just decided to make it up as he went along. Furthermore, he contradicted himself by saying: "Every person you meet in Arizona seems to move on within 6 months to a year" Then followed up with, "I would estimate that most people who live in Phoenix or Tucson live there for an average of 3-5 years before moving back to where they came from or to someplace new altogether."
I'm with you in believing that people really need to just not post about places that they are not familiar with rather than throwing things against the wall to see if they will stick. This has been going on for way to long, especially when the topic of Phoenix is brought up.
No doubt. All of the major urban areas in TX with the exception of El Paso sprawl more than Phoenix and all sprawl more than Vegas. In addition, Grand Canyon University has been a regionally accredited university since 1968. Apparently, bert-from-back-east never actually "checked" that, but just decided to make it up as he went along. Furthermore, he contradicted himself by saying: "Every person you meet in Arizona seems to move on within 6 months to a year" Then followed up with, "I would estimate that most people who live in Phoenix or Tucson live there for an average of 3-5 years before moving back to where they came from or to someplace new altogether."
I'm with you in believing that people really need to just not post about places that they are not familiar with rather than throwing things against the wall to see if they will stick. This has been going on for way to long, especially when the topic of Phoenix is brought up.
I lived in AZ in the 90s and felt that I made a mistake in leaving. I moved back.
I've posted a couple of times in this thread and tried to stick to the premise. OP had some specific needs, and didn't mention the outdoors. But for people who do care about the outdoors, Texas has no answer to the Grand Canyon, Mogollon Rim, any of the high mountains, any of the ski areas, and on and on.
Any one person can only choose one situation. What I mean is, Texas has more urban areas, but OP can only choose one of them. So if OP chooses Dallas over Phoenix, say, based on opportunities in a given field or whatever, that's a legitimate choice, but outside of that choice loses all the things I listed above that are unique to Arizona. I'd rather live in Phoenix and be able to get to the Mogollon Rim or Verde Valley in an hour and half, something which has no parallel in TX.
in Texas you have to turn on the heat and the air conditioning in the same day
Now that can be very true.
Layers - that's the key.
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