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I’m talking about housing. The cost of housing is cheaper.
That’s not what you said but alright. Housing is one cost and it doesn’t seem to be hindering these people… it’s also factored into the COL calculators.
Zillow puts the median home value in DC at $717k and City of Boston at $744k…neither is affordable to black peoples based in the incomes . Not a sea of difference.
You beat me to it! Charlotte has a larger percentage of its "suburbs" within the city limits. By land area, Charlotte is more than twice the size of Atlanta.
There are large pockets of undeveloped land in Charlotte. Also most of our suburbs are definitely outside of the city. Either way you cut it AA middle class are moving intown...please give Charlotte it's props sometimes...
That’s not what you said but alright. Housing is one cost and it doesn’t seem to be hindering these people… it’s also factored into the COL calculators.
Zillow puts the median home value in DC at $717k and City of Boston at $744k…neither is affordable to black peoples based in the incomes . Not a sea of difference.
Frankly, they aren't in the same stratosphere in housing which is by far the largest expense for anyone. We have talked about this many times. You already admitted housing in DC's Black neighborhoods are substantially cheaper than Boston's. They are actually pretty close to sunbelt city prices in 2022.
DC Ward 7 and Ward 8 Home Ownership (East of the River)
And yet, these two places have little to no difference in black incomes and Boston crime rate is like a 3rd of DCs… with a black population that’s is growing overal. So I don’t know what else to say about that. It’s not translating in some any special way in DC. well just have to wait a few years and see.but right now it’s pretty obvious there no real difference. Because even if housing is more expensive..they’re still there…
EDIT: I forgot to make the obvious point much of those properties especially in Dorchester are for multi family homes. One you would buy and then rent a floor. In fact in Dorchester that most of the properties. There’s a lot of bedroooms and bathrooms. The price is a bit of an illusion.
And yet, these two places have little to no difference in black incomes and Boston crime rate is like a 3rd of DCs… with a black population that’s is growing overal. So I don’t know what else to say about that. It’s not translating in some any special way in DC. well just have to wait a few years and see.but right now it’s pretty obvious there no real difference. Because even if housing is more expensive..they’re still there…
EDIT: I forgot to make the obvious point much of those properties especially in Dorchester are for multi family homes. One you would buy and then rent a floor. In fact in Dorchester that most of the properties. There’s a lot of bedroooms and bathrooms. The price is a bit of an illusion.
I'll have to check Boston's Black neighborhood income growth. I can't say what is happening without breaking down that data for Boston's Black neighborhoods. Give me a second...
And yet, these two places have little to no difference in black incomes and Boston crime rate is like a 3rd of DCs… with a black population that’s is growing overal. So I don’t know what else to say about that. It’s not translating in some any special way in DC. well just have to wait a few years and see.but right now it’s pretty obvious there no real difference. Because even if housing is more expensive..they’re still there…
EDIT: I forgot to make the obvious point much of those properties especially in Dorchester are for multi family homes. One you would buy and then rent a floor. In fact in Dorchester that most of the properties. There’s a lot of bedroooms and bathrooms. The price is a bit of an illusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
I'll have to check Boston's Black neighborhood income growth. I can't say what is happening without breaking down that data for Boston's Black neighborhoods. Give me a second...
Here is the data below for the neighborhoods we've been talking about. At first glance, it appears that the DC neighborhoods attract more Black professionals making under $150,000 which makes sense based on the difference in housing costs between DC's Black neighborhoods and Boston's Black neighborhoods. I don't think Black professionals making between $75K-$125K can really afford Boston.
Boston Black Neighborhoods 2011-2020 Difference
Zip Codes = 02121, 02124, 02126, 02131, 02136
Land Size = 14 sq. miles
Total Black Household Difference 2011-2020 = +1,158
Less than $10,000 = -1222
$10,000 to $14,999 = -338
$15,000 to $19,999 = -493
$20,000 to $24,999 = +365
$25,000 to $29,999 = -41
$30,000 to $34,999 =-163
$35,000 to $39,999 = -2
$40,000 to $44,999 = -359
$45,000 to $49,999 = -207
$50,000 to $59,999 = -640
$60,000 to $74,999 = + 675
$75,000 to $99,999 = + 276
$100,000 to $124,999 = +282
$125,000 to $149,999 = +592
$150,000 to $199,999 = +1211
$200,000 or more = +1222 Total Household Growth Over $75K = +3,583 Black Households
Zip Codes = 20019, 20020, 20032
Land Size = 16.1 sq. miles
Total Black Household Difference 2011-2020 = +3,288
Less than $10,000 = -3
$10,000 to $14,999 = +41
$15,000 to $19,999 = -554
$20,000 to $24,999 = -196
$25,000 to $29,999 = -326
$30,000 to $34,999 = +63
$35,000 to $39,999 = -28
$40,000 to $44,999 = -1030
$45,000 to $49,999 = -31
$50,000 to $59,999 = -91
$60,000 to $74,999 = +389
$75,000 to $99,999 = +711
$100,000 to $124,999 = +1,259
$125,000 to $149,999 = +838
$150,000 to $199,999 = +587
$200,000 or more = +1,659 Total Household Growth Over $75K = +5,054 Black Households
Here is the data below for the neighborhoods we've been talking about. At first glance, it appears that the DC neighborhoods attract more Black professionals making under $150,000 which makes sense based on the difference in housing costs between DC's Black neighborhoods and Boston's Black neighborhoods. I don't think Black professionals making between $75K-$125K can really afford Boston.
Boston Black Neighborhoods 2011-2020 Difference
Zip Codes = 02121, 02124, 02126, 02131, 02136
Land Size = 14 sq. miles
Total Black Household Difference 2011-2020 = +1,158
Less than $10,000 = -1222
$10,000 to $14,999 = -338
$15,000 to $19,999 = -493
$20,000 to $24,999 = +365
$25,000 to $29,999 = -41
$30,000 to $34,999 =-163
$35,000 to $39,999 = -2
$40,000 to $44,999 = -359
$45,000 to $49,999 = -207
$50,000 to $59,999 = -640
$60,000 to $74,999 = + 675
$75,000 to $99,999 = + 276
$100,000 to $124,999 = +282
$125,000 to $149,999 = +592
$150,000 to $199,999 = +1211
$200,000 or more = +1222 Total Household Growth Over $75K = +3,583 Black Households
Zip Codes = 20019, 20020, 20032
Land Size = 16.1 sq. miles
Total Black Household Difference 2011-2020 = +3,288
Less than $10,000 = -3
$10,000 to $14,999 = +41
$15,000 to $19,999 = -554
$20,000 to $24,999 = -196
$25,000 to $29,999 = -326
$30,000 to $34,999 = +63
$35,000 to $39,999 = -28
$40,000 to $44,999 = -1030
$45,000 to $49,999 = -31
$50,000 to $59,999 = -91
$60,000 to $74,999 = +389
$75,000 to $99,999 = +711
$100,000 to $124,999 = +1,259
$125,000 to $149,999 = +838
$150,000 to $199,999 = +587
$200,000 or more = +1,659 Total Household Growth Over $75K = +5,054 Black Households
Columbus
Raleigh
Indianpolis
Minneapolis*
Las Vegas
Charlotte Washington DC
Houston
Dallas
Phoenix
Those are 10 I can think of
Honorable mentions to Seattle, Boston (Upper Middle Class), New Haven, Austin, Tampa. I'd include Huntsville but its metro is 1/2 of New Haven, not really a major city.
So basically what I said initially...upper middle class. lol.
But Boston also gained households at $60k+ So your theory isn't 100% accurate. In factBoston gained a lot more black households at $60-75k than DC did...
For reasons related to what I said in posts #104 and #105
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
EDIT: I forgot to make the obvious point much of those properties, especially in Dorchester are for multi-family homes. One you would buy and then rent a floor. In fact in Dorchester that most of the properties. There are a lot of bedrooms and bathrooms. The price is a bit of an illusion.
^You cant breeeze by that. Boston's issue is INVENTORY of non-multi unit properties. DC simply doesn't have many homes selling with 9 bedrooms and 3 baths in black neighborhoods to skew the median price up. MOST of the properties in Boston's black neighborhoods are small multi-unit properties of 4-12 bedrooms. As I showed in Post 105, the simple 3 bedroom ones in black areas are nearly as expensive as the "median"
Boston in general grew slower and saw fewer households move in than DC and its not gonna appeal to as many African Americans if it doesn't pay a very high wage to offset the reputation it has.
But these posts and the breakdown of those making over $75k also reinforce that Boston and DC are in the same boat as far as middle-class blacks - IDK whats this big difference I'm supposed to be seeing. Its just not there. Relative to their existing population size Boston added its fair share of 75k blacks at the same rate as DC (DC has about 2x as many black people). And it lost more poor black people, shifting the overall composition of the black population towards the middle class a little faster than DC.
I've made the point in other threads before- Boston has gained more black professionals in particular young single black people..than families or lower middle-class black people.
The difference in the cities overall is DC lost fewer poor black people. It also added a lot more non-black people so it skews its black % down despite some growth.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 07-12-2022 at 07:01 AM..
So basically what I said initially...upper middle class. lol.
But Boston also gained households at $60k+ So your theory isn't 100% accurate. In factBoston gained a lot more black households at $60-75k than DC did...
For reasons related to what I said in posts #104 and #105
How is my theory not 100% accurate? The only thing I said was DC is cheaper which it is. Professional Black people aren't going to make less than $75K in DC. Looking at the total city Black professional growth, DC gained close to 30% more Black households making over $75K from 2011-2020. Looking closer at East of the River in DC shows growth in the $100K to $125K even though the city lost that population overall.
I think we both can agree DC and Boston are expensive, but East of the River DC is a different world than the rest of DC when it comes to housing costs. It is similar to sunbelt prices.
Boston Black Household Difference 2011-2020
Total Black Household Difference 2011-2020 = +445
Less than $10,000 = -3817
$10,000 to $14,999 = -1161
$15,000 to $19,999 = -108
$20,000 to $24,999 = +800
$25,000 to $29,999 = -467
$30,000 to $34,999 = -1506
$35,000 to $39,999 = -295
$40,000 to $44,999 = -438
$45,000 to $49,999 = -298
$50,000 to $59,999 = -450
$60,000 to $74,999 = +1605
$75,000 to $99,999 = +6
$100,000 to $124,999 = +789
$125,000 to $149,999 = +696
$150,000 to $199,999 = +2551
$200,000 or more = +2538 Total Black Household Growth Over $75K = +6,580
DC Black Household Difference 2011-2020
Total Black Household Difference 2011-2020 = -5769
Less than $10,000 = -4223
$10,000 to $14,999 = -425
$15,000 to $19,999 = -1625
$20,000 to $24,999 = -2320
$25,000 to $29,999 = -137
$30,000 to $34,999 = -1160
$35,000 to $39,999 = -1115
$40,000 to $44,999 = -2189
$45,000 to $49,999 = -266
$50,000 to $59,999 = -366
$60,000 to $74,999 = -1283
$75,000 to $99,999 = +553
$100,000 to $124,999 = -36
$125,000 to $149,999 = +2045
$150,000 to $199,999 = +2443
$200,000 or more = +4335 Total Black Household Growth Over $75K = +9,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
^You cant breeeze by that. Boston's issue is INVENTORY of non-multi unit properties. DC simply doesn't have many homes selling with 9 bedrooms and 3 baths in black neighborhoods to skew the median price up. MOST of the properties in Boston's black neighborhoods are small multi-unit properties of 4-12 bedrooms. As I showed in Post 105, the simple 3 bedroom ones in black areas are nearly as expensive as the "median"
Boston in general grew slower and saw fewer households move in than DC and its not gonna appeal to as many African Americans if it doesn't pay a very high wage to offset the reputation it has.
But these posts and the breakdown of those making over $75k also reinforce that Boston and DC are in the same boat as far as middle-class blacks - IDK whats this big difference I'm supposed to be seeing. Its just not there. Relative to their existing population size Boston added its fair share of 75k blacks at the same rate as DC (DC has about 2x as many black people). And it lost more poor black people, shifting the overall composition of the black population towards the middle class a little faster than DC.
I've made the point in other threads before- Boston has gained more black professionals in particular young single black people..than families or lower middle-class black people.
The difference in the cities overall is DC lost fewer poor black people. It also added a lot more non-black people so it skews its black % down despite some growth.
No, the main issue is DC just builds way more housing in general than almost any city keeping prices down. Not only is DC cheaper, brand-new single-family houses and class-A apartment buildings are cheaper and it's not really close.
How is my theory not 100% accurate? The only thing I said was DC is cheaper which it is. Professional Black people aren't going to make less than $75K in DC. Looking at the total city Black professional growth, DC gained close to 30% more Black households making over $75K from 2011-2020. Looking closer at East of the River in DC shows growth in the $100K to $125K even though the city lost that population overall.
I think we both can agree DC and Boston are expensive, but East of the River DC is a different world than the rest of DC when it comes to housing costs. It is similar to sunbelt prices.
No, the main issue is DC just builds way more housing in general than almost any city keeping prices down. Not only is DC cheaper, brand-new single-family houses and class-A apartment buildings are cheaper and it's not really close.
Even if DC does build way more housing. The point still stands that the median price in Bostons back neighborhoods really is skewed by large multifamily units- theres virtually no denying that. We can see it plainly. I know the city well- well enough to know that the upper-middle class was coming into Boston before you crunched these numbers.
Also let's recall- I did say DC was gaining more. Honestly, I might've been surprised as you are that there was this much parity between BOS and DC. I wouldn't have known to be frank I wouldve expected DC to be doing a little better but its cool. In terms of comfortability/middle-class vibes, I think DC and Boston are in the same boat and the stats indicate that is true. We also see a lot of Black Bostonians moving to "non-black" residential neighborhoods namely West Roxbury, Roslindale, and Jamaica Plain. And single households moving to Downtown, Back Bay, Allston, and Mission Hill.
DC grew by well over 30% more than Boston so relatively Boston is doing well-hence why I ranked these places where I ranked them.
Median Household income is already higher for Blacks in Boston and will likely continue to create separation so far as I can tell...because Boston is punching much closer to DC in absolute numbers than it theoretically should. And high housing cost and higher black immigrant share (%) will mandate that.
DC is cheaper EOTR absolutely, but its not just housing production (thats a big part of it) theres a relative lack fo amenities, walkability, and safety EOTR compared with DRMHP. Boston is shifting to a middle-class black population faster in large part because Blacks have fewer attractive suburban options in Boston and the city is much safer, and there seem to be more schooling options and alternatives to city public schools. DMV saw way more black growth than Greater Boston. Obviously, a larger share of the Black middle class in the Boston Area prefers to live in the city
DC is doing well, Boston is doing well it's all good. I don't know why the thirst to differentiate and one up so much apart from the 'mecca mentality' i mentioned at the beginning of this..
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