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Metro Atl is 94th in the country in personal income
Metro Phl is 26th
Quote:
Originally Posted by zen_klown
The net effect is that Philadelphia has a major problem with sprawl.
There is a professor at the University of Pennsylvania who has written extensively about this.
Imagine if this professor did a report on metro Atlanta which has less people than metro Philaldephia but has 2x the amount of acreage comprised in its metro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zen_klown
The reason why Atlanta is growing so fast right now is because it provides a very high quality of life for its residents. Incomes are higher and housing costs are lower in Atlanta versus Philly. This is why there fellow Americans are moving to places like Atlanta and abandoning places like Philly.
Incomes are absolutely not higher. Housing cost /cost of living is cheaper which is the main reason for your growth. You might be all pumped about that now but 50-75-100 years from now when all that cheap housing deteriorates your region is going to be in for a rude awakening.The availabilty of cheap housing is a bad reason for growth.
You are misguided. People arent abandoning the Philadlephia metro. The Philadlephia area has grown every census period since records have been kept.On the otherhand The city of Philadelphia has lost population for the very same reasons I am cautioning you about. Overpopulation, mass production of housing, and the ensuing aftermath of soceity that comes with age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl
I want to see rainrocks link that proves 64% of all Philly area College grads remain in the area after graduation.
I'm not buying it. That is one of the constant complaints by the areas movers and shakers that they can't retain them, and they can't figure out why.
You guys are confused about the condition of metro Philadlephia.86% of college graduates from the Philaldephia region stay in the Philaldephia region. If it were so bad you would be inclined to believe those graduates would leave.
I tend to believe you sunbelters are a little bit delusional.
No way could it pass up Houston or Dallas/Ft. Worth. What makes you think that Atlanta could pass up those metros? Did you read somewhere that those two metros were declining in population? Have those metros been hit hard by the economy? Please give us some data to back up your claim.
I'll take a stab at why this scenario is possible... Houston has a "hurricane problem" which results in higher insurance rates and, post-Katrina, the threat of annual evacuations. Plenty of folks in Florida have become fed up with the storms and have fled for inland places where the storms are less frequent, like Atlanta. Also, between the decline of NASA and the loss of Enron five years ago, Houston's economy is not as strong as it was at the start of the decade. There is no telling how its oil and gas industry will fare in the coming years given the world's uncertain energy future (does the US stay with fossil fuels, go with alternative fuels, nuclear?). And don't forget...12 of the last 20 years have seen a Texan as president of the United States. That's meant good things for Texas for much of the past two decades. There is no telling how things could shake out for the state now that it no longer has a booster in the white house.
I'm not trying to catch flack from pro-Texas folks. I'm just saying that Houston could lose out in a battle to remain the sixth most populated metro area in the country. And that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.
Sorry, I'm not buying it. How can the Feds come up with two so widely divergent figures? zen_clowns link was also from the Feds, and those figures are totally different. I know you don't give them any credibility, but I'm going with the ARC's figures.
The link to Collegia doesn't do a thing. You have to order any studies you care to peruse.
86% of college graduates from the Philadlephia area choose to stay and raise their families in Philadlephia. Not a statistic that would lend itself to your supposed" declining dying" region.
I knew you were twisting figures, and your link proves it. It states that 86% of NATIVES to the area stay after graduation. The figure drops to 64% for all grads - quite a difference, but still very respectable. That actually flies in the face of everything I have seen and read, here and elsewhere. Of course, I could be an ass and claim that study was nothing but a puff piece - the same way you completely disregarded and dismissed the ARC, but I won't.
Sorry, I'm not buying it. How can the Feds come up with two so widely divergent figures? zen_clowns link was also from the Feds, and those figures are totally different. I know you don't give them any credibility, but I'm going with the ARC's figures.
Suit yourself, I'm sticking with the official bureau of economic analysis. By the way that link provided by zen isnt the census bureau its a research group from the U of Michigan going by the name census scope.
What does posting those pictures prove exactly? Philly still has a negative-domestic migration and its international migration is not offsetting it anymore.
Philadelphia is one of the poorest cities in the U.S. Let his feeble mind think that it is somehow elite so he'll feel better about his beloved city that is but a few years away from being Detroit. Yeah - I hear they are keeping new residents out of the Philly area and calling it "controlled growth".
Some of Philadelphia's lovely, quality housing...brag some more about smart growth in your city:
Scary fake suburbia in the middle of Philadelphia on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ethorson/319093807/ - broken link)
I'll take a stab at why this scenario is possible... Houston has a "hurricane problem" which results in higher insurance rates and, post-Katrina, the threat of annual evacuations. Plenty of folks in Florida have become fed up with the storms and have fled for inland places where the storms are less frequent, like Atlanta. Also, between the decline of NASA and the loss of Enron five years ago, Houston's economy is not as strong as it was at the start of the decade. There is no telling how its oil and gas industry will fare in the coming years given the world's uncertain energy future (does the US stay with fossil fuels, go with alternative fuels, nuclear?). And don't forget...12 of the last 20 years have seen a Texan as president of the United States. That's meant good things for Texas for much of the past two decades. There is no telling how things could shake out for the state now that it no longer has a booster in the white house.
I'm not trying to catch flack from pro-Texas folks. I'm just saying that Houston could lose out in a battle to remain the sixth most populated metro area in the country. And that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.
Let me take a stab at this real quick. Houston does not have a hurricane problem. Before Ike this year, Alicia was the last hurricane to hit Houston, and that was in 1983 (though we had a tropical storm in 2001).
I don't see how NASA is declining first of all. And about Enron, yeah, it went bankrupt, but it didn't make Houston's economy fall. It was like a small blimp on the radar really. That vacant building Enron left was gobbled up quick by Chevron. Also, for the past two years, Houston has had the nation's highest job growth (in raw numbers). So, saying Houston's economy is not as strong as it was in the beginning of the decade isn't true at all.
Houston's oil and gas industry (only a part of the overall ENERGY industry) has been dropping in Houston's overall economy. From over 80% in the 80s (when Houston boomed to most under a President not from Texas), to just 45% now, and dropping every year. Medical, aerospace, tourism (yes tourism), a fast-growing IT industry, etc., are taking its place. Hell, the southern suburb of Pearland is poised to be the "Nano-technology Capitol of the World" with a HUGE development taking place there now. It, along with Rice University and the Texas Medical Center just proves that the title will come true.
Houston may lose out in the "battle" (may), but I don't think so. I believe this year's estimates will show Houston gaining more ground on Atlanta's growth.
Well they sort of disprove your claim of a dying city + region. There is $10 B dollars worth of costruction going in that 1 sq mile of a 5,000 sq mile region.
I'm not as concerned about population ,inmigration/outmigration figures as you are.
The Philadlephia area had its growth spurt 150 years ago. Its arguably the most mature region in the usa and doesnt need the moral support or the need of having 1 million people a decade moving here. Its beyond that.
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