Amendment 2--Trauma Center Funding--failed. (Atlanta, Savannah: buy, tax, live in)

[md911]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Ok I have a few things to mention about travel times to trauma centers in GA that I think is being missed, but I will get back to that later.

I am a little startled how a tax to provide funding for more trauma centers and better, faster ambulance, life flight transportation could possibly spell disaster for our hospitals.

I think it would be pretty hard to make a good rational argument to explain that.

It is one thing for someone to say... I don't want to pay even a $10 tax or this lacked a publicly stated spending plan, but to argue more trauma centers and lifeflight operations could be bad for our hospitals (much less a disaster) is a bold statement that just doesn't seem to make sense at face value.

But, I am giving you a chance to do so. Please feel free to consult these health care employees to explain.

I just can't sit by and hear this type of argument. It needs to be debunked or explained.

I would love to hear that argument also!! If someone in healthcare said that, please do not go to them seeking health advice.

[johnatl]

Originally Posted by mccarley

Slightly off topic, but here in Carrollton, we have a SPLOST vote coming up to extend a one cent sales tax. The officials are describing it as "only a penny". To me that is 1% and on a large purchase its a lot more than "only a penny". I vote against every tax increase.

How extremely short-sighted of you. You get what you pay for.


As far as the Trauma Care amendment, every single person I know in my circle voted yes, even though we all realized it would not benefit our part of the State. Just goes to show that not all of us in the metro despise the rest of Georgia.

[cityrover]

The people voted no to more welfare.

just 1%, just 10$ just 50cents..

add them all together and tally it up. Oops, there goes HALF your income.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by cityrover

The people voted no to more welfare.

just 1%, just 10$ just 50cents..

add them all together and tally it up. Oops, there goes HALF your income.

And I am going to combine your arguments from the other Amendment thread

Originally Posted by cityrover

Not really because we all know that only CERTAIN people will get to use it, while everybody else funds it. Kinda like grady.. Hm wait. Isn't grady a trauma center?! And even that can't stay out of the red. Why build more?

When you build something in downtown atlanta, do you really think people from waycross will ever benefit/use it? Lol. For all purposes they might as well fund projects in jacksonville. They actually have a chance of reaching there on time

Wow!

I'm sorry. I don't know what to say other than I am amazed at how incorrect and short-sighted you are. You should spend more time actually reading through the other posts and examining the response time maps and the arguments for what this is actually about.

The purpose of the fee was to fill in the gaps for parts of Georgia that can't reach trauma centers quickly.

The state plan is to build 4-6 new Level 2 trauma centers...primarily in south Georgia. It is also to spread out helicopter and ambulance operations to reduce travel times to accidents.

So if anything this is much more of a case of Atlanta, that already has trauma centers, subsidizing the rest of Georgia, than the opposite.

Secondly Trauma centers are usually a part of much larger hospitals.

It is true many poor people without insurance go to Grady Hospital (not necessarily trauma care) and hospitals are required to see any patient in the emergency room. This makes them lose money, however many people form all walks of life go there when they have really bad trauma injuries that many of the hospitals in the Atlanta region can't treat. It is also the biggest burn unit in the state. So when we are talking about --trauma care-- that has less with who uses the other services at the hospitals, because it happens to be who closest to them.

And lastly, I am sorry, but the citizens of Atlanta are also citizens of Georgia and despite you being incorrect about this being a way for people in Waycross funding things in Atlanta, I am sick and tired of people putting down Atlanta so much and anything that would help Atlanta must be bad.

The 10 core counties of metro Atlanta produce 51% of Georgia state taxes, yet the state only spends about 37% in the 10 core counties of Atlanta.

I find it interesting that most the people, but not quite all, bothering to argue, publicly, or on this forum against this measure are against it for completely false reasons.

[PKCorey]

With the helicopter plan, would the state start their own med choppers like the state of md or would rescue air and lifeflight expand???

[cwkimbro]

The biggest problem I have had with the Amendment 2 so far is the lack of details. They did not do a good job of explaining where the money is going.

What I have found is a document from 2009 that explains not exact details, but a 5 year steering plan for trauma care in Georgia (2009-2014). The tax from amendment 2 was to be a part of the funding mechanism for the plan, but not the only means of support. It is also unclear with how much money at this point would be needed, but it is an interesting read in that it details many of the problems with the existing system and there is a series of issues to address. This five year plan is from the Georgia Trauma Care Network Commission, which was only formed by a 2006 state law (so it is relatively new).

It can be found here (http://www.safespeedsgeorgia.org/gtcncfiveyear.pdf)

Section 3 of the report is about strengthening emergency medical services in rural GA. I got two main things out of the section. They want to incentivize rural EMS into districts larger than the single counties, since counties are so small.
...and it also said the following about air transport

"Air Medical Transport Imbalance There are apparently more than enough air medical helicopters in north Georgia and none southwest of Macon. This imbalance presents problems in terms of the timely transport of critically injured patients as well as the air transport of patients with minor injuries at needless cost and risk. Georgia is beginning to regulate air medical providers, and to optimize the role of air transport within the emerging Georgia Trauma System, a coordinated approach by air medical providers to assure full coverage of Georgia should be implemented. The first step would be a collaborative planning process that engages both EMS and air medical transport companies in determination of solutions."


My take on this is they see the problem, they are going to look for a type of regulation to solve it, but haven't figured out the best way to do that. With that language they use it seems as if they want to keep private companies intact, but find a way to fix the imbalance.


The commission, so far, has a state funded EMS grant program. My guess is that is being used to incentivize the rural EMS districts.

But anyways... read through it. There is much more to their plan. They want to enhance communications, make patient transfers easier, and lower-risk, set up regional planning units by Level 1 trauma centers, enhance a subsystem for pediatric care, and several other things.

[flyonpa]

Wow we just found a new job for Sonny. Med-Vac Helo Pilot. He is type-rated for Them...

[cityrover]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

And I am going to combine your arguments from the other Amendment thread



Wow!

I'm sorry. I don't know what to say other than I am amazed at how incorrect and short-sighted you are. You should spend more time actually reading through the other posts and examining the response time maps and the arguments for what this is actually about.

The purpose of the fee was to fill in the gaps for parts of Georgia that can't reach trauma centers quickly.

The state plan is to build 4-6 new Level 2 trauma centers...primarily in south Georgia. It is also to spread out helicopter and ambulance operations to reduce travel times to accidents.

So if anything this is much more of a case of Atlanta, that already has trauma centers, subsidizing the rest of Georgia, than the opposite.

Secondly Trauma centers are usually a part of much larger hospitals.

It is true many poor people without insurance go to Grady Hospital (not necessarily trauma care) and hospitals are required to see any patient in the emergency room. This makes them lose money, however many people form all walks of life go there when they have really bad trauma injuries that many of the hospitals in the Atlanta region can't treat. It is also the biggest burn unit in the state. So when we are talking about --trauma care-- that has less with who uses the other services at the hospitals, because it happens to be who closest to them.

And lastly, I am sorry, but the citizens of Atlanta are also citizens of Georgia and despite you being incorrect about this being a way for people in Waycross funding things in Atlanta, I am sick and tired of people putting down Atlanta so much and anything that would help Atlanta must be bad.

The 10 core counties of metro Atlanta produce 51% of Georgia state taxes, yet the state only spends about 37% in the 10 core counties of Atlanta.

I find it interesting that most the people, but not quite all, bothering to argue, publicly, or on this forum against this measure are against it for completely false reasons.

I know what it was. But i am saying it how people saw it. read on

And you know what.. they were right. It would have never happened as proposed. Luckily this is something that i won't have to be proven right on, at least for now.

Onto the other part. You cannot live in a vacuum. You want to talk about return of investment? Even in the best run corporation it is not on a 1:1 ratio. You cannot say just because metro makes 51 they should get back 51. That completely ignores the impact of metro on other areas and vice versa... IMO there is 5% wiggle room. 37>42.


Heli operations.. medivacs are at 4000-6000$ per flight, FIXED, makes no difference why or who. They won't even crank the engines for less than that, 1 mile or 100 miles. Spreading it does nothing but create even more massive overhead and equipment needs.

Here is the problem. When you have 50$ left, and somebody wants to take 10 for something that you will likely never ever use/see/care about, what is it in for you? Nothing. You are just giving money away... Oh yes the argument about it benefitting somebody else. heh, doesn't hold water any more. im not even going to mention socialism because we have been socialist since the 1930s, but, you can't give what you don't have. this is why the polls went this way. disjoint between benefit and expense. let me put it this way. if somebody tells me that i have to pay you X for you to drive a prius, and i will never even ride in one, why would i agree to that?!

There are no false reasons. There are just reasons. Your reasons for are as false as those against. Welcome to politics/life.

Some people, are gullable enough that they will agree to ANYTHING if somebody tells them will save lives or help the children or battered women or anything that makes them feel all mushy inside. Others can cut through the lies and just see things for what they are, and how they relate to them. And these people choose to exercise their right to vote for what affects them and what is in their benefit. Just because it doesn't make sense to you, does not make it wrong.......

[southgeorgia]

Originally Posted by md911

I would love to hear that argument also!! If someone in healthcare said that, please do not go to them seeking health advice.

the bill affected the administrative side of healthcare and tied up hospital resources that could've been put to better use.

in short, your ER wait times could double because resources that used to be available to anyone walking in the door would now be only available to trauma patients, whether a trauma patient is in the building or not.

and it would've required hospitals to hire additional staff that tax funding may or may not pay for, even if the hospital couldn't afford it.

at least that's how i remember it.

[tonygeorgia]

We are ok in Atlanta, if south Ga needs a trauma center you all should pay for it. When it comes to issues dealing with Atlanta traffic south Ga doesnt want to help Atlanta so we dont want to help you all when you are in need. Why not serve alcohol on Sunday or change the last call and use that extra money for those centers. Bring in casinos and use that additional revenue for the trauma center