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Old 07-08-2011, 07:02 PM
 
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The mention of Russia is interesting. You can see where their policies led.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histori...untries_by_GDP

Then poof seemed like an overnight change for many from outside.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You have to decide if you want a federal system of government or unitary system...
Actually we don't need to and shouldn't make such a decision. Both extremes are inefficient and thus undesirable in comparison to a blend of the two. A centalized structure that retains but develops and delegates authority to lower levels is better able to administer so large an estate as the one we have here to deal with. Local school boards for instance are able to be very hands-on. The state level can set general policy, and the feds can deal with aid and funding issues. Each level has a role it can play, and the one most apt and able to play it should be the one to do so. The same logic can be repeated ad infinitum, but I'll decline to actually do it.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
A far higher percentage of Greeks work directly or indirectly for the government. These are the people most impacted by the "austerity" measures. Government in the US is bloated, but it is nothing like Greece.
But it seems to me we're moving in the same direction toward more bloated government, regardless of whether Dems or Reps are in charge.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
The EU and the Euro was born in 2000 and I was 20 at that time. And I knew rightaway after studying the Euro financial model that this whole set up was a farce and was headed for ruin. It couldn't even hold itself together for a decade.

This sovereign crisis is only proof to that. Greece will eventually default. They will keep buying more time. It's more like the inevitable can only be put off for a certain amount of time. We'll see how far they are able to stretch it. Other members of PIIGS aren't far
The real goal of the Euro was to centralize power and control in the hands of an elite few.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
You mean we could get 80% retirement at age 53 and full medical like Greece, GREAT!
The Greeks aren't getting that any more, either.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Too much debt is too much debt. History doesn't show you can "print" your way out or carry it around forever. There is a big push for a global currency, like SDRs. Altho ironically, all the centralizing seems to cause more issues there are those who claim it is the answer.
I agree. And those pushing a one world currency are usually the same people who have created financial crises (directly and indirectly). They are obsessed with getting more power and control for themselves.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Will US wind up like Greece?
Pure Capitalism based on free and open markets with no taxes or social regulations is worshiped by theoretical economists with religious fervor. It is hated by businessmen that realize the key to profits is some form of monopoly. Economists do not run the world. Businessmen do. That is why economies that provide subsidies for business and protection for wealth are so popular. The people that run the show love making money but hate losing it even more. They do not let the religion of Capitalism get in their way. Most of the populations are the losers in this rigged casino. The "housing crisis" is a great example of financial manipulation of the highest order. Look who won and look who lost in that manufactured debacle.

If the big players have their way the US will wind up much poorer than Greece because we have more to steal.
I generally agree with you, although I think you're being one sided. The entitlement programs promised by our government are also unsustainable. It seems people tend to fall into an either/or mindset. Either they see Corporate Cronyism as the core problem or they see Socialism as the core problem. I see BOTH as 2 aspects of the same problem.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by saganista View Post

We are not in debt up to our eyeballs. That "Greatest Generation" bunch ran the debt-to-gdp ratio up to 120% or so. Did they pay it off? Nope. They just dumped it onto future generations (that would be us) while they lived it up off all those GI Bill benefits that taxpayers were handing to them. And what sort of burden do you find yourself under today as the result of their selfish ways? Any?
The "Greatest Generation" did not run up the debt in World War 2. Most of them were too young to be in positions of power. They got to deal with the burden of the war debt, though. A fast growing economy made the debt manageable and shrunk it as a % of GDP.

Our debt is now approaching 100% of GDP. That might be a manageable percentage if we didn't have a huge wave of Baby Boomers about to collect Social Security & Medicare. And in case you were thinking of it, don't mention the wars. Even if we ended all the wars now, Social Security & Medicare are going to eat up nearly all government revenue if we don't do soemthing. Economists across the political spectrum agree on that much. Our future economic prospects are not that good, as countries with aging populations collecting Social Security benefits tend to have slow growing economies....so growing out way out of the problem is not a likely option as it was after World War 2.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Greece has almost full retirement at 56, healthcare for each and every person, and no one goes hungry or without a roof over their head.

Yet, their national debt is the equivalent to 4,400 per person. Ours is 4,500 per person.

The numbers you are using are just plain WRONG! Do you reallly think people can't google to check your "facts"???

Federal Debt per Person US
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:40 AM
 
30,896 posts, read 36,965,098 times
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Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
If it's from MSN it can't possibly be good.
I agree with a lot of your points, but I really don't like the snarky attitude. It shows you didn't even read the article. BTW, I'm not singling you out. I feel the same way about liberals who automatically dismiss everything from Fox News.
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