Should It Be Shameful To Say You're Not Patriotic? (Iran, racism, Obama)
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But, I came across some sayings recently, and now I feel much better now about why I shouldn't be patriotic.
William Randolph Hearst: A politician will do anything to keep his job, even become a patriot.
This one isn't anti-patriotism, it's anti-politician.
Me personally, I've always liked 'dissent is the highest form of patriotism'. Helps me rationalize my penchant for disliking much of what I see in my country (the same country as yours, for what it's worth, heh)
I should also add I'm quite skeptical of displays of 'extreme' patriotism and am sympathetic to the views expressed in most of your provided one-liners. 'Patriotism' is a close cousin of nationalism/jingoism/xenophobia
Patriotism has been held in all ages to be the noblest feeling of Man. The opinions of a few cranks who are unable to rise to its demands is of no consequence.
"...the noblest feeling of Man"! What stinking rubbish. Compassion towers over patriotism. Or should.
My cousin with a military and a police background has shamed me too often for not being patriotic, or more patriotic, for a variety of reasons, and I oftentimes have felt ashamed that I'm not.
So, how do you view patriotism? Something to be proud of or ashamed of?
I joined the Army at 17. Part of it was 'patriotism', part a desire for adventure, and part the fact that I knew I had started going down a bad road and I needed a 'course correction'.
'Patriotism' is a 'feeling', [almost] like an emotion. People have varying degrees of all kinds of emotion, some have a little, some have a lot. Either you have it or you don't, sometimes events occur that cause one to feel more or less emotion regarding one thing or another. Often, one cannot always 'control' the emotions one feels. Having or lacking any particular feeling or emotion is not by itself a reason to feel either 'proud' or 'ashamed' of (and these are emotions as well).
There is nothing inherently 'good' or 'bad' about having or lacking any particular emotion, including 'patriotism'. The only issue, is if having or lacking any particular emotion(s) results in one taking an action that results in [unjust] harm to another.
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Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
I can't imagine the pain it must bring to the surviving members of "the Greatest Generation", those who fought and sacrificed in the name of freedom to watch some idiot trample on or burn the American flag. It is the epitome of hypocrisy that those who desecrate the flag are able to do so without fear of being beaten, locked up or even killed because of the people who loved that flag and sacrificed to give them the protected rights to do so.
On the contrary, it brings me no pain at all. Those of us who have served took an oath to "...protect and defend the Constitution..." and that includes the right to speak out as one wills. If one wishes to speak in a manner that includes burning or trampling the flag in order to fully present one's opinion, then the right to do that is embodied in the Constitution and one should feel free to do it. *Not* feeling/being free to do it is the thing we should fear the most, and it would make a waste of the sacrifices that some have made in defense of the Rights embodied in the Constitution (and its Amendments).
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I think that people who refuse to recite the pledge of allegiance or they take a knee when the anthem is played are simply misguided. America has given people every opportunity to thrive compared to so many other places in the world and many have forgotten how lucky they are.
We have heard so much negativity coming out of the election like people saying "he ain't my President". People have lost faith in America.
Maybe the OP has lost his/her faith in America?
No one should be shaming anyone for their feelings. I would recommend reading some History or watching some inspiring movies like "Pearl Harbor" but most are about war but they might lite a fire in you and allow you to see that America is a pretty special place.
I disagree with the bolded statement. I am no longer as 'patriotic' as I once was (when I was younger, unwise in the ways of the world and politics, with an idealistic viewpoint seen through rose-colored glasses untempered by experience). I see no fault in these actions.
This country (collectively speaking) has, in fact, embarked on courses of action that may be regrettable for one reason or another, and people within (and without) the government have taken actions inconsistent with the principles of Constitution. If one feels that such actions will be effective in drawing attention to, and protesting them, then I whole-heartedly encourage them. Many have sacrificed to preserve and defend this Right. Use it...or you just might find yourself losing it.
Those who would attempt to prohibit, or denigrate, others because of their exercising their Right to speak their mind in this manner should be ashamed...*especially* those who have served and taken the Oath.
"...the noblest feeling of Man"! What stinking rubbish. Compassion towers over patriotism.
However, no one has attempted yet to define "patriotism," and then suggest a measurement of it, so that we may know if we - or most likely the other guy - has enough of it. Or if we can rub his face in the dirt for not making the grade.
Without those two basics established any discussion that might make sense is unlikely.
I did define it later. You must have missed it, which is OK. I don't read all posts, either. I mean patriotism to be an act, not a feeling. Specifically, an act of sacrifice for one's countrymen. The greater the sacrifice the greater the patriotism: a guy giving 2 years of his life to serve in the Army vs. a guy who gave his life serving in the Army.
Compassion towers over nothing. It's a feeling. Having nice feelings is nice but that's about it. It requires nothing of anyone. That's why being compassionate is so popular and get so much praise. "You're compassionate? Gee, that's great! I'm compassionate, too!"
As far as patriotism being directed towards ones country or countrymen: it's inherent in the word. It derives from the Latin form of father, pater.
Generally, sacrificing something for a non-American would be just that: sacrifice. It's just as noble as patriotism although less likely to perceived as such. Patriotism connotes that "You sacrificed for me" and that always strikes a more responsive chord.
Don't confuse patriotism with jingoism. You are a patriot as long as you basically support the US government, even passively. Being a patriot does not mean you need to do or show anything beyond that. You are still a patriot if you criticize the government unless you are advocating the overthrow of the government. If people are accusing you of not being a patriot because you are not actively showing support for US government and its policies, they are really being jingoistic and want you to be the same.
Don't confuse patriotism with jingoism. You are a patriot as long as you basically support the US government, even passively. Being a patriot does not mean you need to do or show anything beyond that. You are still a patriot if you criticize the government unless you are advocating the overthrow of the government. If people are accusing you of not being a patriot because you are not actively showing support for US government and its policies, they are really being jingoistic and want you to be the same.
This. OP, what first came to mind when I read your post is: what is your definition of patriotism? What is your cousin's definition? My guess is that the issue lies in the difference between yours and his definitions. Patriotism that goes to the extreme of nationalism (Germany just prior to, and during, WWII) isn't a good thing, being conducive to conflict with other nations. I can't answer your question until I know how you and your cousin define "patriotism".
Constructive criticism of the government (not that the OP mentioned that...) is one of the most patriotic things one can do. It means you love your country, and want it to be the best it can be. Countries that don't allow criticism tend to end up cannibalizing themselves: Stalin's Russia, Mao's Cultural Revolution, for ex.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 11-29-2016 at 12:56 PM..
Are you saying that flying the Confederate flag is patriotic? The people who originally flew that flag were traitors to the American republic.
They were not traitors. They attempted to secede from the union which was not in violation of the constitution. Anyway flying the American flag is patriotic. Our patriotism is to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
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There's a line in a David Sedaris essay about American patriotism: "Every country has a nationalistic slogan, and none of them are 'we're number 2'"
It's definitely possible to appreciate and respect the American experience without dipping into the jingoistic and nationalistic propaganda that promotes that America is the best country in the world and the only country that matters.
I don't think patriotism proclaims this is the best country or only country that matters just that you belong to and support YOUR country.
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Originally Posted by fleetiebelle
Well, the election of a biracial American as President was a momentous day for America, so...
So one can be patriotic only when they get something from their country or something goes their favor? I've always seen it as kind of a marriage, for better or worse in sickness and in health.
Last edited by Jeo123; 11-29-2016 at 01:41 PM..
Reason: Tag fix
Here's how I feel. I love living here and will never move from the United States. I think it is a great place and I'm happy here. I vote. I can say what I feel is right or wrong about how our country is run and I do as often as I like. Is that patriotic? Depends on who you ask I think. I don't fly the flag at my house, post politcal signs in my yard, never has any desire to serve in the military or donate to that or anything else political. I feel really fortunate to be born a citizen here. There a far far worse places in the world. I know this is a great country. I do not know that it is the best in the world simply because I don't know enough about everywhere else in the world.
These athletes that call attention to themselves during the national athem at games are selfish jerks. They have benefitted a lot from being here and I think its the worst kind of disrespect there is. If you feel so strongly quit the team. Oh no, wait, the money, can't do that. I think it proves they don't even really believe in what they are doing if they won't kiss the money good bye and walk away. What really speaks to them more? Money. So stupid. Why not just admit to themselves and everyone else that they are in a good place?
They were not traitors. They attempted to secede from the union which was not in violation of the constitution. Anyway flying the American flag is patriotic. Our patriotism is to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Treason is defined in Article III of the US Constitution as levying war against the United States, which is exactly what the Confederacy did. Flying a Confederate battle flag is not an act of US patriotism.
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