Confederate Symbolism; Time to Stop Nursing Grievances and Relitigating Past (controversial, independent)
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I watched an episode of the "Jim Jefferies" show, featuring the Australian comedian, now apparently resident in the U.S.
He was on the side of the anti fascists, and anti racists, but he said, "If statues or R.E. Lee, and Jefferson Davis are removed, do Americans suddenly forget who they were, or their place in U.S. history?"
"There are zero statues of Adolf Hitler in Germany, but do you think no one knows who he was, or what he stood for?"
Well the civil war and the aftermath of slavery did not really end until the 1950's and 1960's and the Southern states did not grant full citizenship to blacks until they were forced to by the federal government. I don't care one way or the other as I never have and probably never will drive through or visit the south, though I've seen all of the east and west coast, the midwest, the west, Canada and Mexico. I think it's ironic that a protest about the removal of one statue has lit a fire that will probably result in the removal of hundreds. I don't think symbols and statues of the Confedracy belong on public property. If you want to fly the stars and bars on your porch that's your business. One of our neighbors does that, but he took it down last week and I haven't seen that weather beaten flag since.
I was a military kid. Every afternoon at 4 pm, the base lowered the Star-Spangled Banner, played Reveille, and we had to stop whatever we were doing, stand at attention facing the direction of the music. In the post movie theater, before the movie started they played the Star-Spangled Banner, and we all stood in the theater while it played. I spent over a quarter-century in uniform, marching under the Star-Spangled Banner, standing for the Star-Spangled Banner, saluting the Star-Spangled Banner, wearing the Star-Spangled Banner, seeking out the Star-Spangled Banner when wandering lost in foreign cities, and being relieved as hell when finally spotting it.
Over the years, many people have raised weapons against the Star-Spangled Banner. Sometimes they've had good rationales. Maybe their good rationales help them (or their heirs) sleep better at night.
But as someone who has taken seriously life under the Star-Spangled banner, my line on Confederate monuments is bright and straight: Nobody who raised weapons against the Star-Spangled Banner deserves a government monument, regardless of rationale.
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The example given of a subway tile is a bit ludicrous. I doubt it will be removed or anyone would want it to. There is Indian art from previous centuries that incorporate the swastika and no one has objected.
Well, every now and then someone brings it up, but in that past that's been batted down by knowledge. Of course, that's a matter of a the use of a symbol by a cultural minority, and it's the same effect that causes third-wave SJW feminists to wear a cape for radical Islamists.
SJWs are a weird set of people. They exist to be outraged, and they get outraged over stuff they don't even know anything about, and carry on the outrage even when the people they're wearing a cape for try to tell them it's not outrageous.
They simply live to be outraged. When they talk about "microaggressions," they're acknowledging having to examine things under a microscope to find things to be outraged about.
I guess everyone needs a hobby, but as is always the case, nobody else cares about your hobby but those with the same hobby.
You know, when I was a principal in Virginia, one day a Black student (female) was sent to my office because she was refusing to do an assignment in history class -- to write a 2-3 page essay about "The American President I Most Admire". The student told me that she didn't admire White American presidents; that she admired the kings and queens of Africa. So I said, "Okay, tell me about one." "Whaddya mean?" "Tell me about one of the Black kings or queens of Africa that you admire." She couldn't think of one. In other words, she just didn't want to do the assignment.
This is not unlike the guys who were protesting in Charlottesville in support of Nazis or the stormfronters. Most of them (there were exceptions, of course) don't know shyte about the generals of the Civil War, or Jefferson Davis, or much of anything else about that conflict. And I'm not just guessing that's true. I lived in Virginia for most of my adult life and got into some conversations about the general topic with those who supposedly had pride about the Confederate history of the state. I'd always ask questions like "Which Confederate general do you most admire?" They'd usually say either Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson. And then I'd ask, "What, specifically, do you admire about them?" They could never answer. "How many times have you visited the Civil War battlefields down around Fredericksburg?" We only lived less than an hour's drive from there. Almost all never had. And so on.
This topic has NOTHING to do with those statues, which virtually none of those alt-right protestors would even stop and glance at if they walked right past them. This has nothing to do with the Civil War -- which most of them are too uneducated to discuss. What it really has to do with is the culture wars in general.
Why would anyone build such statues in the place? What are they supposed to represent?
This is a good question. As other posters have said.
If there were a world-wide fantasy draft of military tacticians in the last 500 years, Robert E. Lee would likely be a top 5 pick. Personal values aside. There is a US Army Barracks named after him. Washington & Lee University is also named after him. There is considerable evidence that he was not a supporter of slavery.
I grew up in Boston. My ancestors also grew up here. I don't care whether there are statues of Lee anywhere or not. This may be a "white privilege" to feel this way, not to care - I can accept that. To some, he may be quite offensive.
He's not just a "Southern traitor," though. If you believe that, you need to read more about him. Like most people, he is complex character.
And, Grant fought to preserve the Union and was one of our presidents. Additionally, very few suggest that graves and tombs be torn down.
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