Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It all seems like business as usual - after all, America was built on "imported" labor. In fact, much of it WAS illegal (slavery), but those smart coyotes worked out ways around it. For example, if importing slaves from Africa was illegal, they'd bring them to the Caribbean and smuggle them in later:
"The final Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves was adopted in 1807, effective in 1808. However, illegal importation of African slaves (smuggling) was common"
I'm not going to claim that all Johns and Sues are scared of work because I know of too many exceptions. But we still fall far short of the workforce we need to carve up meat, pluck chickens and spend 95 degree days outside in Miami doing construction or landscaping.
If Americans want to live like Kings - and, let's face it, many of us do....we need servants. Sure, we don't call them servants or slaves, but someone has to work the 3 shifts at Tyson pulling the headless chicken carcasses off the line. I dare anyone to tell me that is a job that one can be proud of...due to the dignity of work.
It would be another thing to be a small town butcher or farmer - but standing on an industrial killing line year in and year out seems to me like an apt description of hell on earth....and I'm a "dirty job" guy.
A sneering commentary by someone who accuses others of talking out of their backsides when they have no clue themselves.
What bubble do you live in? You sound as though you have no experience in the real world, where people work with their hands. Take a look at all the trades.....construction, roofing, masonry, welding, landscaping, irrigation, etc. Mostly done by crews of illegals. And yes, they HAVE taken work away from American citizens who formerly did this type of work, and would still, if they could get it or weren't constantly getting underbid by illegals.
You are delusional, or have no clue to the low wages much of the jobs you cite above historically have paid.
Roofing? Landscaping? Irrigation? All low paying.
"Undocumented illegals" fill jobs lazy low-skilled Americans never would and despite the rhetoric spewed by clueless conservative politicians, that's the facts Jack. They are filling essential jobs like picking fruits/vegetables (they don't magically pop out of the fields and into supermarkets), performing low skilled construction jobs at $8-$10 an hour versus $15-$20, washing dishes in restaurants at minimum wage, cleaning offices and hotel rooms for $8 an hour and the list goes on. Anyone who states they're stealing American jobs is talking out of their backside, as it's well documented Americans won't work at those wages and if they're not...who will? Critical thought is a fun tool that really needs to utilized much more than it is...
There is not one occupation that the majority of the people doing it are immigrants, both legal and illegal. I have been to many hotels, restaurants, farms, and construction sites where there is not one illegal working. The locals have those jobs that you say people won't do.
In some areas people benefit by not working. That is where the problem is. People won't do the jobs when they take part in the 140+ means tested welfare programs we have in this country.
Critical thought is great but you can't ignore reality.
You are delusional, or have no clue to the low wages much of the jobs you cite above historically have paid.
Roofing? Landscaping? Irrigation? All low paying.
Low-paying, where? I've paid my roofers a pretty penny; they're not cheap! And landscaping also isn't cheap. The college kids they hire (in Seattle, where there aren't scads of illegal workers) work for cheap, but the guys who really know their horticulture charge a stiff price. Some of that goes to overhead, but they still get paid good money.
Pretty hard these days for high school students & college students to find work because
of competing with illegals willing to do the jobs for low wages.
It simply ISN'T hard for "high school students and college students" to find work, though. There are tons of jobs that used to be filled by kids that age that now can't find enough workers. Examples: public swimming pools and parks have had to shorten their hours or close extra days because they can't find enough lifeguards, concession workers, general laborers and the like. My friends who own small construction and painting businesses can't find ANY college kids now who are willing to work in the summers. As a homeowner, I've found that It is incredibly hard to find someone to mow your lawn or do housecleaning. Fast food places are turning to retirees to find reliable workers. I guess American "high school students and college students" just want to sit on their butts staring at a computer instead of doing outdoor work or manual labor. And in many areas there simply aren't a pool of imaginary "illegals" available to do that kind of work. Instead, parks close early, houses don't get roofed or painted or fences installed, and grass just keeps on growing. I WISH we had illegals in my area - I'd sure hire them.
You are delusional, or have no clue to the low wages much of the jobs you cite above historically have paid.
Roofing? Landscaping? Irrigation? All low paying.
Law of Supply & Demand. Pretty simple. Those jobs are low paying because there are plenty of illegals who will take those jobs at that pay.
Without illegals, the wages would have to go up to attract candidates from a smaller work force.
How high would they go? At least high enough that it makes sense for a person to take the job rather than survive on the public dole.
I have knowledge of the labor market in Chicago. Besides the well known attraction of Latinos to landscaping, roofing, cook/busboy & house cleaning jobs, they are also heavily represented in dry walling & cement work, and illegal Poles are painters, while illegal Irishmen are heavily represented in building trades- carpenter, electrician and such-- All willing to work for 1/2 the union wages and taking many jobs away from legitimate businesses.
The American work force is ~ 80M, while the "consumer force" is 320M. That means the illegals adding to the work force lowers wages more than their consumerism adds to the economy. Net effect: a drag on the economy.
You're assuming that there is enough of a pool of Americans wanting do do manual labor that they would run to take those jobs if the pay was raised. That just isn't true - there simply aren't enough people who want to do hard manual labor, no matter how high the wage.
"Undocumented illegals" fill jobs lazy low-skilled Americans never would and despite the rhetoric spewed by clueless conservative politicians, that's the facts Jack. They are filling essential jobs like picking fruits/vegetables (they don't magically pop out of the fields and into supermarkets), performing low skilled construction jobs at $8-$10 an hour versus $15-$20, washing dishes in restaurants at minimum wage, cleaning offices and hotel rooms for $8 an hour and the list goes on. Anyone who states they're stealing American jobs is talking out of their backside, as it's well documented Americans won't work at those wages and if they're not...who will? Critical thought is a fun tool that really needs to utilized much more than it is...
Yeah, you're right, American workers won't do those jobs at those wages. That's the point, they bring down wages. If an employer couldn't hire dirt cheap illegal labor, they'd hire actual Americans who'd do it at the MARKET PRICE. If someone won't do a job for that little of money, maybe you should pay them more.
Of course, there are those such as yourself who want to import cheap labor to lower wages across the board.
Anyone who says "Americans are too lazy" are just demonstrating the bubble they live in. Plenty of Americans willing to work hard for a fair price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother
You're assuming that there is enough of a pool of Americans wanting do do manual labor that they would run to take those jobs if the pay was raised. That just isn't true - there simply aren't enough people who want to do hard manual labor, no matter how high the wage.
"Undocumented illegals" fill jobs lazy low-skilled Americans never would . . . .
No, they fill jobs that non-lazy Americans would otherwise do. There are no jobs that American citizens won't do.
Quote:
They are filling essential jobs like picking fruits/vegetables (they don't magically pop out of the fields and into supermarkets), performing low skilled construction jobs at $8-$10 an hour versus $15-$20,
They do ALL the construction work, not just "low-skilled construction jobs" (whatever that means). Construction is a great job that Americans used to do for a high wage.
Quote:
. . . washing dishes in restaurants at minimum wage, cleaning offices and hotel rooms for $8 an hour and the list goes on. Anyone who states they're stealing American jobs is talking out of their backside, as it's well documented Americans won't work at those wages and if they're not...who will?
Nobody, so raise the wages to the market rate!
Quote:
Critical thought is a fun tool that really needs to utilized much more than it is...
Indeed -- try it some time! Yes, they're stealing American jobs, and that's an inarguable fact. The law of supply and demand has not been magically been repealed.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
