Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I appreciate your thoughtful response on this post. While the old system definitely had its warts, such as people trapped in bad marriages, it by and large worked. Divorces were not unknown, but at least children raised by divorced parents had friends whose parents' marriages were intact. There were role models. Patterning. Now, when you go to these hollowed-out towns typically people have a fair numbers of half-brothers and half-sisters and a more chaotic environment. Which segues to the next part of your post to which I respond.
The problem with that well-intentioned solution is that its impossible. The teachers, politicians and others are there for the children for 8:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m., 181 days of the year. If the parent is working or indisposed due to substances or incarceration, or just plain lack of interest, helping the children becomes quite difficult.
This got me to thinking about problems such as teen pregnancies, dropping out of society, opioid abuse and bad behavior generally. These people are, in general, not going to grow into being providers. They are going to parent children who don't know their fathers, and may not even know their mothers, because of incarceration.
The question is how do we get people back to pride in their homes, schools and community? Single parenthood, unconventional relationships, and dropping out of school are the order of the day. What have we gained by "liberating" people from nuclear family-hood? And teaching children that there are no rules, no limits. Is the mental anguish this is causing eased only by opioids? Why are religious, educational or community leaders taking an interest? Where are the pastors, teachers and small-town mayors?
While politically I am liberal, I feel that experimentation in lifestyles, gender identities and sexual promiscuity that has developed since the "Summer of (Free) Love" in Haight-Ashbury in 1967 has not ended well. Time to walk back from the experiment. Maybe "Ozzie and Harriet"and "Leave it to Beaver" were cornball but at at least the results are better than we have now.
Except that graduation rates are up, teen pregnancy is down, and drug abuse is actually more common among upper class youth than lower class youth. You're looking at a worst case scenario and generalizing it across the population, and it's not representative.
As far as incarceration goes, the US has gone nuts with regard to jail and prison time. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. There'd be a lot fewer parents in jail if we moved toward offering treatment rather than jail for victimless crimes, and reparations instead of jail for other non-violent offenses.
The world we see is the result of people making personal choices. Consider what you are saying. "Liberation" was bad? You are against people having options and being able to make choices?
There is nothing new under the sun. Today's world is just a reflection of what was always in the human heart and mind. The only difference is that back in the past, people felt trapped into ways of thinking and ways of living.
The past was NOT good for people of color, women, the handicapped, and LGBT people. That's a good chunk of society.
I'm sorry that you experienced those side effects with that particular contraceptive. It truly sounds horrible!
However, I am sure there are alternatives.
Definitely! I eventually got my tubes tied. I just always wondered if it would be a good choice for people who would rather their teen daughters didn't even want to have sex...and if they did, they wouldn't get pregnant at least... But again, I'm not truly sold on it being safe for a developing young person to use for a matter of years, either.
Except that graduation rates are up, teen pregnancy is down, and drug abuse is actually more common among upper class youth than lower class youth. You're looking at a worst case scenario and generalizing it across the population, and it's not representative.
As far as incarceration goes, the US has gone nuts with regard to jail and prison time. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. There'd be a lot fewer parents in jail if we moved toward offering treatment rather than jail for victimless crimes, and reparations instead of jail for other non-violent offenses.
Could not agree more about our enormous rates of incarceration. Prison should be used to keep dangerous people away from the general population. We need more progressive and compassionate solutions. The current "system" is punitive and draconian.
Could not agree more about our enormous rates of incarceration. Prison should be used to keep dangerous people away from the general population. We need more progressive and compassionate solutions. The current "system" is punitive and draconian.
It's because of the private for-profit prison system. More inmates => more profits. Always follow the money.
Kids!
I don't know what's wrong with these kids today!
Kids!
Who can understand anything they say?
Kids!
They a disobedient, disrespectful oafs!
Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers!
While we're on the subject:
Kids!
You can talk and talk till your face is blue!
Kids!
But they still just do what they want to do!
Why can't they be like we were,
Perfect in every way?
What's the matter with kids today?
Could not agree more about our enormous rates of incarceration. Prison should be used to keep dangerous people away from the general population. We need more progressive and compassionate solutions. The current "system" is punitive and draconian.
How many people are still in prison because of pot? We could start there.
While politically I am liberal, I feel that experimentation in lifestyles, gender identities and sexual promiscuity that has developed since the "Summer of (Free) Love" in Haight-Ashbury in 1967 has not ended well. Time to walk back from the experiment. Maybe "Ozzie and Harriet"and "Leave it to Beaver" were cornball but at at least the results are better than we have now.
Hmmm.....
Let's be specific about the counterculture and the effect on our society. Let me name the overriding themes and put my own "rating" on them (as a liberal).......
1. Thinking outside the Box (Steve Jobs said LSD was one of the biggest influences on his life).
A+ (note - that is very different from Ozzie and Harriet). In fact, Silicon Valley is largely a construct of that generation and the influences of imagination and individual freedom (the PC was seen as a way that individuals could publish and learn outside of "the system").
2. Equality and Civil Rights - we are still on that path - and , to be honest, it was pushed by many forces including the affected themselves through their churches.
A (still working on it, but things are better)....
3. Healthy Food - the entire health food, organic food and similar movements were born out of the late 60's.
A (the information and products are out there - we have obesity problems due to people not choosing them or other reasons).
4. Women's Liberation - the crux of Woman's Lib is not lesbianism or such- it is the ability to do what they want in life in terms of career as well as in the home.
B - More women in law and medical school than ever before. But some excesses and a poor understanding of the subject from some.
5. Decrim of Pot - decrim of most other drugs
C - we are on the way there, but 10's of millions of lives have been ruined by incarceration and arrest records that needn't have been.
6. Peace Movement
C - no one can doubt that liberals and the left have been the loudest voices for the USA minding its own business. Unfortunately, we don't seem to learn that lesson as a society....and, given the polling, most of the lesson needs to be learned on the right (vast differences in support for the Iraq war, for example).
7. Environment - no doubt most of our rivers and air, etc. are cleaner than they were in Ozzie and Harriets time.
B
8. Simple Pleasures - it is much more likely today that even wealthier folks will hike, kayak or simply enjoy the great outdoors...as opposed to more luxe types of recreation.
B
9. Gender Bending - WAS NOT a construct of the Hippie Movement, the Haight or anything related. I know this for a fact since I and many of my friends were deeply involved. In point of fact, we were actually extremely conservative and old-fashioned in such thinking. This type of thing is a newer construct.....
No Grade - since it was not part of the hippie movement.....
A short note about the "experimentation" you mention. This country had a very high divorce rate previous to the 1990's (peaked in 1945 and then in 1980 or so) . "Free Love" was rampant (they called it cheating). Divorce rates have actually been coming DOWN for a couple decades.....
No doubt the availability of birth control had some effect - I would argue for the better, as men had always had that particular option (rutting on will), but women were given an easier time of it with "the pill".....
I won't address gender bending to any degree...again, since that has nothing to do with the 60's. But I will say that "Ozzie and Harriet" was a time when it may have seemed great to the small percentage of people who were sitting pretty....but a LOT of the world (colonialism, imperialism, war, poverty, etc.) were feeding the system which allowed Dennis the Menace to live in their cordoned off world.
[font="]While politically I am liberal, I feel that experimentation in lifestyles, gender identities and sexual promiscuity that has developed since the "Summer of (Free) Love" in Haight-Ashbury in 1967 has not ended well. Time to walk back from the experiment. Maybe "Ozzie and Harriet"and "Leave it to Beaver" were cornball but at at least the results are better than we have now.
I don’t want to get ‘political’ here, but my answer is in line with your post. I believe that liberalism has greatly contributed to the ‘let’s live anyway we want to’ attitude of the last 25-30 yrs. I have seen(and posted) many times, the opinion that things were better(overall) when I was growing up. As you see by my location, Mayberry is an ideal I find attractive. Yet invariably, someone identifying as liberal will oppose that view with the argument that, as a white, conservative male, I want to return to a time of open racism, where women had few rights, and homosexuals were beaten. I would counter that I recognize that our society has never been perfect, and we have to be honest with our failings, but I felt that it was just a more civil, productive part of our history.
I respect your political beliefs, but I don’t believe many on your side would share your desire to return to when Ozzie and The Beav were must see tv.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
