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Simple solution then: explain why you became overly dramatic when reasonable suspicion was explained to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy
Simple solution then: explain why you became overly dramatic when reasonable suspicion was explained to you.
I don't see anything "overly dramatic" about my post # 183. I explained my position.
Which, by the way, is recommended in the FAQ for this sub-forum. It says, “This is not the place for distorting your opponents' statements” and discourages “one or two line posts”. Additionally, several times I have posted several references to articles that support my opinions, rather than always simply putting the other poster down.
You need to stop distorting my position, because several times you've stated that I hate cops. That's not true. I have repeatedly said that most cops are honest and do a great job...and that what needs to be done is to oust the few that are ruining the reputation of police departments. Same is true for lousy teachers and administrators in my profession.
And please don't dismiss this study because it's from Chicago. Almost every year, more people are killed by cops shooting them in the United States than are killed in homicides in Chicago.
However, for the sake of peace, I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts that are not substantive. And by that, I mean posts that cite studies or articles.
Which means if they have to ask for consent, they don't have any probable cause. If they had it, they wouldn't need consent.
Is 2A aware of the 4A?
That actually depends. He could be asking even though he has probable cause so that it'll be easier on both parties. But if he's asking just to be asking then you'd be right.
Then the best thing a citizen can do is not give them a winning lottery ticket.
Well yeah, but that doesn't mean not answering questions is an automatic get out of jail free card. If the officer has probable cause then he can arrest you regardless of whether or not you gave consent.
I don't see anything "overly dramatic" about my post # 183. I explained my position.
Which, by the way, is recommended in the FAQ for this sub-forum. It says, “This is not the place for distorting your opponents' statements” and discourages “one or two line posts”. Additionally, several times I have posted several references to articles that support my opinions, rather than always simply putting the other poster down.
You need to stop distorting my position, because several times you've stated that I hate cops. That's not true. I have repeatedly said that most cops are honest and do a great job...and that what needs to be done is to oust the few that are ruining the reputation of police departments. Same is true for lousy teachers and administrators in my profession.
And please don't dismiss this study because it's from Chicago. Almost every year, more people are killed by cops shooting them in the United States than are killed in homicides in Chicago.
However, for the sake of peace, I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts that are not substantive. And by that, I mean posts that cite studies or articles.
You compared a country of 330+ million people to a city of less than 3 million.
2017 Chicago Murders: 650 (murder, ie, none justified)
2017 total police killings in the US: 987 (vast majority 100% justified)
Pretty poor comparison considering the total population numbers involved.
I’ll read your article now.
Edit: no need to read it. I didn’t say that a refusal to consent adds to levels of suspicion. I operate based on the facts at hand applied according to the law. Any cop who tries to justify further actions based on refusal to submit to a search is going to be shot down by the DA/prosecutor.
That’s your right, just know that asking for consent does not necessarily mean that probable cause doesn’t already exist.
Yes it is my right. I'm glad we agree. By the way, I do like your response to phetaroi and agree with your points there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee 2A
Well yeah, but that doesn't mean not answering questions is an automatic get out of jail free card. If the officer has probable cause then he can arrest you regardless of whether or not you gave consent.
I'm not suggesting that it is. I don't know why the hell people wouldn't exercise their rights. They exist to protect you. Especially if you are innocent!
That actually depends. He could be asking even though he has probable cause so that it'll be easier on both parties. But if he's asking just to be asking then you'd be right.
Easier on both parties? If one party is the police and the other is the prosecutor.
Yes it is my right. I'm glad we agree. By the way, I do like your response to phetaroi and agree with your points there.
Thanks. Believe me when I say that I operate well with every law and precedent that governs policing in my city. I’d have it no other way. Breaking rules is easy. I don’t like easy. Easy is dishonest, unlawful and provides no sense of accomplishment. Even when I know the person is a real perp, I’ll get them legally or I’ll get them next time.
Thanks. Believe me when I say that I operate well with every law and precedent that governs policing in my city. I’d have it no other way. Breaking rules is easy. I don’t like easy. Easy is dishonest, unlawful and provides no sense of accomplishment. Even when I know the person is a real perp, I’ll get them legally or I’ll get them next time.
Really appreciate the way you roll then. I'm just a civil libertarian guy that wants to make sure we stay free and have our checks and balances. Any reasonable person (which I believe you are one) knows that it isn't the same as being anti-police.
Actually he was shot when he got up. The call said that he pointed a flashlight and a gun at somebody so the officers had reason to believe he was armed.
Read the piece again. The guy with Tolan said the POLICE shined a flashlight and gun at himself and Tolan. There is disagreement as to whether Tolan was off the ground. He was upset that the Bellaire cop had slammed his mother against the wall when she came out to say that the cops had the wrong guy. Tolan was completely innocent of any wrongdoing and did not deserve to be shot, or placed on the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee 2A
If the officer has probable cause to believe you have drugs in the car, he can search the car.
And it is my belief that most of the time, that probable cause is made up. I would personally never consent to a search.
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